Is West Indies cricket dead ?

[sussexpob]

The icc's big 3 agreement has potentially destroyed one of the traditional powerhouses of the sports history with in a few months, all down to money.

So the bcci rather see the Windies disappear then take a tiny hit on their profit margin? I wonder how much money they get from Chris Gayle lighting up their main money maker? Don't need the windies? Does ipll work as well without guys like Gayle smashing 30 ball hundreds.

If Windies fail to exist, it maybe the final straw with cricket for me.....

Tired of hearing about bloody money 95% of the time. The icc should step in as custodians of the game and sort this out to preserve one of the greatest legacies in our sporting history

[Making_Splinters]

Can't see how you can blame the BCCI for WICBs inability to run a functioning cricket board.

[mikesiva]

You might be right, Splinters...if the West Indies are unable to run a functioning cricket board after 100 years of existence, then when will they be able to get it together? In contrast, the Jamaica Athletics Administrative Association has been able to successfully run a functioning athletics board with no strikes for 100 years. It may just be that individual country associations are more efficient than a board that tries to pull together 10 different countries. The ideas of the West Indies is probably comparable to the EU putting out a cricket team featuring players from Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, etc...is it any surprise that it's a mess?

They might have to dissolve the WICB and form a new body.

As I said in a previous post, India are the wrong guys to do this to.

If they form a new body, what enthusiasm will there be to form a new West Indies, when the BCCI will still refuse to play against them? If the West Indies are no longer allowed to play against India, which is potentially the most lucrative fixture, then what's the point?

Instead, independent countries such as Jamaica, Guyana, Trinidad and Barbados could enter the World Cricket League:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cricket_League

In a four-year cycle, they could work their way up to Division One, the way Afghanistan did....

Of course, all this is hypothetical, and worst-case scenario...but there are more people talking about it in the Caribbean than there used to be. The ball is in the BCCI's court, and it all depends on what they decide to do on Tuesday. If they decide to sue the WICB for US$65m, which they don't have, then this may become a very real possibility. I hope the BCCI think long and hard about what they do, before they act....

[rich1uk]

thing is mike , this is all about money and players wanting a bigger share , if the WICB does disappear and it goes back to just the national boards then I don't see how that is going to achieve what they want. if anything its going to cost them money.

[mikesiva]

thing is mike , this is all about money and players wanting a bigger share , if the WICB does disappear and it goes back to just the national boards then I don't see how that is going to achieve what they want. if anything its going to cost them money.

I think that's part of the problem, rich....the West Indies is not a nation. Nobody has ever gone on strike against their country, be it Jamaica, Trinidad, Barbados or Guyana.

It's one thing to go on strike against an increasingly irrelevant institution such as the West Indies, which nobody really feels strongly about, but to go on strike against your country? That's a totally different kettle of fish....

No cricketer has ever gone on strike against any of the above four countries. No athlete has ever gone on strike against any of the above four countries.

It wouldn't be that hard for any of the four countries to advance to Division One of the World Cricket League. This is how Afghanistan did it....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanista ... icket_team

2008 - started in Division Five, won it that year

2008 - promoted to Division Four, won it that year

2008 - promoted to Division Three

2009 (January) - won Division Three, promoted to Division One

They skipped Division Two! So, in just two years, they reached Division One....

Of course, I don't really believe this will happen...but if the BCCI try to take the WICB to the cleaners, who knows?

[rich1uk]

that doesn't address the point about it basically coming down to money tho mike

the players didn't refuse to play because they are against the concept of the WICB as opposed to national boards , they did so because they weren't happy about how the money was being divvied up and if their actions do lead to the demise of the WICB then its actually gonna cost them money

i'm not defending the WICB or WIPA here but the players actions seem to be taking them down a path where they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face

[Arthur Crabtree]

What about the standard in Tests? Would all four countries challenge for Test status, that is, being better than Bangladesh? Or could they only hope to play ODIs? I guess there would be no future for the Windward and Leewards, if everything has to break down to the countries. So what happens to Antiguans and St Lucians?

[Aidan11]

If the WIs as a cricket nation ceased to exist then you more or less get what's in the domestic competitions. Despite the upheaval international cricket still needs the WIs.

I think they can still come out of this alive without too much damage.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Given the players they have, WI underachieve. Logically they would be weaker as separate teams, but without difficult logistical problems, and perhaps issues over team cohesion, would Trinidad be any worse than the WI?

[Dr Cricket]

Worse thing for me about all this situation is that India might have to postpone is next test in India till march 2016 3 years after is last major test series in india.

Apparently Sri lanka wants next year India test in sri lanka.
Be interesting since BCCI promised all state association at least one game in each state every year so that means at least 27 games each year which meant india would host 2 countries each year and possibly one short odi series to fill the requirement.

It is so ridiculous how few games Indians play at home that the top players can't even face spin or bowl spin any more since they never play first class cricket in India or even international games in india.

I highly doubt BCCI would ask for the full money up front most likely BCCI/ICC would give WICB a loan with interest so basically WICB will be in debt for life and ICC/BCCI will probably control them just like how ICC gives loans all the time to Zimbabwe cricket.

Can't see WICB breaking up though.

here Michael Holding view.
http://www.wisdenindia.com/cricket-arti ... dry/131231

[Aidan11]

Some interesting points there from Holding and if what he says is correct then I have every sympathy with the players.

[mikesiva]

here Michael Holding view.
http://www.wisdenindia.com/cricket-arti ... dry/131231

I was flabbergasted when I read that article by Holding!

Just a few comments on the above points....

1) You only have to read the comments under articles in newspapers such as the Jamaica Observer to see that more and more Jamaicans are calling for their country to leave the West Indies.

2) I don't expect there to be a break-up, but if the BCCI push for a big-money payout from the WICB, that might push the discussion on to the table.

3) Logically, teams would perform worse if broken up, but how much worse can you get than eighth in the Test rankings and eighth in the ODI rankings? It's only in T20 cricket that the region is potentially world-beaters. Would it make that much of a difference?

4) Yes, international cricket needs the West Indies. Therefore, I hope the BCCI think long and hard about what decisions they come to on Tuesday....

5) Money is just part of the issue, as we can see in that Michael Holding article. Half of the players in the team have IPL contracts. The bigger issue seems to be the WICB mismanaging its players.

6) The big problem is that the WICB reports to no one, because there is no Caribbean government. National sporting associations have less problems, because in the end, they're accountable to the people through their elected officials.

7) Well, if Jamaica and Guyana can beat Ireland, as they did earlier this year, and Ireland are supposed to be the next cab on the rank for Test status, then they could very realistically challenge the likes of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

8) Afghanistan entered the Associates competition at the Division Five level in 2008, and by 2009 they had soared through the levels to Division One. That could easily happen to Jamaica, Guyana, Barbados and/or Trinidad.

9) Yes, the smaller islands would get screwed. That's why I hope no attempt is made to bankrupt the WICB....

[sussexpob]

I don't think anyone has touched two valid issues here, one that would also alter the thinking behind all the points you just raised, Mike.

1. Why are the WICB cutting this money? Whatever Holding or anyone wants to moan about, there is a simple fact of economics here.... if the WICB cant afford the players wages, then touch luck to the players. I am not surprised that the WICB are struggling, it was always going to happen when the ICC sold its soul to the 3 money making nations and bowed down to them. The WICB surely must be under financial pressure? They were basically bankrupt in 2006 without the World Cup!!!!

The most important thing in this, one that most people (and Holding to a certain extent does) will gloss over, is the fact that it seems the match fees agreed to pay that are now being "lost" were the constructive work of dishonest player representations in the first place. Could the WICB afford to pay these? Are they regretting being forced to, for financial reasons?I wonder how many players went on strike when the WIPA got them a generous and dishonest overpayment? I bet no one even batted an eyelid!!

Players of all nations seem to have an attitude they don't need a national team anymore, that's fine for this generation. I wonder how Dwayne Bravo or Gayle would make their money without the WICB when they were 19?

Either way you look at it, if the WICB have money problems then the team are acting very selfishly and narrow minded.

2. The players being screwed seems to be the message. By players, we mean the selected top players in the national squad, many of which are IPL players or big bash players, and who earn probably multiples the national average wages from the countries they are from. The board initiative seems to be to spread the wealth to domestic players, and if this is genuine then its a hard policy to criticise too harshly, simply because in future performance terms and attracting youngsters to the game, good base level pay is going to have positive effects.

I guess a third point I would make is.....

3. Mike.... If the WICB struggle to fund a team, how can the individual nations alone?

[rich1uk]

2. The players being screwed seems to be the message. By players, we mean the selected top players in the national squad, many of which are IPL players or big bash players, and who earn probably multiples the national average wages from the countries they are from. The board initiative seems to be to spread the wealth to domestic players, and if this is genuine then its a hard policy to criticise too harshly, simply because in future performance terms and attracting youngsters to the game, good base level pay is going to have positive effects.

that's my real issue with what has gone on here and the actions of the players , as you say sussex , my understanding is the top players are unhappy their payments have been reduced in order for the WIPA to use it to spread payments a bit wider to include more fringe and young players. surely that has to be good for WI cricket and the guys complaining about losing some of their money are mostly the big name players who are the ones with IPL contracts

[Arthur Crabtree]

Surely the countries already run their national team, and then WI on top of that. Sure, they would have to fund away tours, but they already fund part of that anyway. Also, they can attract their own sponsorship and tv deals.