Is West Indies cricket dead ?

[Aidan11]

shame about Ottis 2 t's. He became one of my all time favourite cricketers after his heroics with Durham.

He can come back here any time, for me

He's a legend up in Durham.

[SaintPowelly]

Hes a villain in Hampshire

[yuppie]

Hes a villain in Hampshire

Why?

[Aidan11]

Hes a villain in Hampshire

Why?

Took all 10 of their wickets in an innings of a CC match & helped Durham beat Hampshire in the 50 over cup final one year by taking the first two wickets with the first two balls of the Hampshire innings.

[mikesiva]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-wes ... 87945.html

'We refer to our last correspondence to you dated October 6th, where we the players suggested as a way forward that "The players are proposing in light of the above and our previous correspondence, that we continue with the same old payment structure which was previously agreed by WIPA and WICB until we are in a position to properly be informed of all the WICB's finances etc, have an input in the decision making process and more importantly negotiate an acceptable agreement in an attempt to arrive at a win-win resolution. For the avoidance of doubt, this old payment structure will continue and remain in effect until a new agreement is mutually reached between the Players and the WICB". We are of the view that this proposal would be an acceptable way forward since everything remains the same and more importantly neither the WICB nor the players are in a disadvantageous position while we continue to discuss further. We are disappointed with the lack of proper representation and the players are now forced to make this proposal without any details as to how this new purported agreement was even arrived at and by whom, since the only advice we have received from you as President and CEO of WIPA is to not sign the contract /agreement that was sent by the WICB. The players are of the view that as a matter of principle, we should not accept these conditions whereby we are being asked to play a series against India without any certainty of what are our obligations and what we will be playing for....Mr. Hinds, we have over the past few days raised a number of questions which have not been answered even though you should have firsthand knowledge of the facts. We find it worrying that you would want to have a Board meeting to determine who were the lawyers and IR persons used for the negotiations of this agreement. This has led us to do our own preliminary investigation which has informed us to date of the following, which we will stand corrected as we await your written response later today.

1) There were little or no legal advice sought in the negotiating of this purported new MOU between the WICB and WIPA.
2) There were little or no Industrial Relations advice sought during the negotiations of the purported new MOU.
3) None of the players were consulted during and after the negotiations of this purported new MOU. This is a process that has been the common practice between previous WIPA representatives and the players. This was completely ignored.
4) The Players were never given the opportunity to consider the document (MOU) and approve it before it was signed consistent with past practice.
5) The first time any agreement was seen by the players was a match/tour contract with a new fee structure significantly different from what we received in the past. This was given to us in India.
6) To date, the players have still not seen this new purported MOU between the WICB and WIPA.
7) The players rights which we have protected through many negotiations and Arbitrations have been given away for nothing.
8) Questions raised by some WIPA Board members were ignored.
9) The WIPA Board never approved the new purported MOU before it was signed.
10) WIPA is receiving in addition to the 3% of all players earnings, a sum of $500,000.00 USD annually from WICB (1% 0f WICB Revenue) once this new agreement remains.
As indicated in our earlier correspondence the reduction is unacceptable and as one of our members put it "it is ridiculously insane" when one considers the massive cuts based on the information we have received:

1) Our Test/ODI/T20 fees have been decreased by 75%
2) No compensation for the use of our rights. That has been decreased by 100%
3) Our ICC fees have been decreased by close to 100%

Perhaps Mr. Hinds, the confusion of the plethora of positions that you occupy being Chairman of Selectors for Jamaica Senior team, a Board member of the Jamaica Cricket Association and the dual role of President and CEO of WIPA have in some way contributed to the confusion or perhaps being a member of the same club as Mr. Cameron in some way may have clouded your judgment. However, we as players who are paying members of WIPA demand that proper representation is required. We wish to make it very clear that should the players be forced to take matters into their our own hands, we will not hesitate to take the appropriate action as see fit. We will hold you and the WIPA Board who support this process liable.'

[mikesiva]

"It has also come to the WICB’s attention that the some of the players could withdraw their services for the first ODI. The WICB deeply regrets this apparent eventuality, especially in light of the tedious and substantial work which went into the good faith negotiations to arrive at the new, historic CBA/MOU. The WICB apologises to the fans, the BCCI and all other stakeholders should the first ODI be disrupted as a result of player action. The WICB is making every effort to ensure that it fulfills all its commitments and that cricket is played. The WICB further thanks the BCCI, the host board, for their understanding and pleads with fans to exercise calm and patience. The Board trusts that a reasoned approach is taken and that the interest of cricket is served. The Board will make further announcements as may be necessary."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-wes ... 87941.html

[mikesiva]

Wavell Hinds responds....

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestne ... -president

Bravo is beginning to look more than a little foolish now.

But what this means in the long run, is that the WI players are restive, and that's not a good thing.

[sussexpob]

I know nothing about this mike, but it seems from the letter (if true), that there is a potential conflict of interest, that the non consultation of players in the process was wrong, and chiefly, the huge pay cut they are being asked to take is completely unreasonable.

Is this pay cut linked to the big three decision to only look after themselves?

[mikesiva]

I know nothing about this mike, but it seems from the letter (if true), that there is a potential conflict of interest, that the non consultation of players in the process was wrong, and chiefly, the huge pay cut they are being asked to take is completely unreasonable.

Is this pay cut linked to the big three decision to only look after themselves?

I believe you're right about every point....

1) Wavell Hinds has a conflict of interest.

2) According to Hinds' letter, players like Big Bravo, Shiv and Sarwan were there at the presentation, but how much of it did they understand, and how much of it revealed what they were going to lose?

3) It seems the dispute is over the sponsorship funds, which were used to beef up the players' salaries, because, according to Hinds' letter, their actual wages have gone up.

4) Yes, I believe this pay cut is linked to the Big Three looking after themselves.

Bravo replies to Hinds....

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/W ... 66421.html

It sounds like Ramnarine is getting back involved again....

[yuppie]

This wont mean a recall for Floyd Reifer will it?

[mikesiva]

This wont mean a recall for Floyd Reifer will it?

Who knows?

Thankfully, Floyd has retired from domestic cricket now, so I hope not....

Bravo's further response:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/ ... 89599.html

"There is no mention whatsoever of such a vote taking place and that is in keeping with what persons attending that meeting have said," Bravo said, referring to the minutes of the meeting as well as having consulted his fellow players present at the AGM. Bravo brought to Hinds' attention the segment in the minutes of the AGM where he had clearly said that, "he support[ed] 100% the proposal but certain conditions must be discussed, one of them being no pay drop for the senior team and the other salary be raised to compensate the loss of sponsorship fee." Bravo also pointed out that both Hall and Hinds had said before any final decision was taken that the WIPA would consult WICB to make sure that "to balance of the loss of sponsorship fee, a compromise MUST be reached to EVEN out the difference." Hinds and Hall, Bravo said, had made it clear that senior players like himself, Chris Gayle, Darren Sammy and Chanderpaul would be kept abreast of the updates. Instead, Bravo claimed the players were always in the dark over the MoU, which they are yet to see. "As is evident from the minutes of the AGM, Mr. Hinds and Mr. Hall promised to provide more information, meet with senior West Indian players, make up the shortfall if the sponsorship were taken away, even out the difference and certain conditions must be discussed one of them being no pay drop and more importantly discuss with the players before any final decision is made," Bravo wrote. In the second part of his response, sent on October 12, Bravo objected to the fact pointed out by Hinds that under the new agreement with the WICB the players actually stood to earn more. According to Hinds, the players would get a 15% increase in their match fee across the board along with a hike in the retainer contracts ranging from 12.5 to 25%. The Test-match fee had been increased from $5000 to $5750; ODI fee had been hiked from $2000 to $2300 while the Twenty20 International fee was raised from $1500 to $1725. Also, there were two new contract categories being included from this season: Category A+ and Category B+. An A+ player's retainer would amount to $150,000; Category A players would get $135,000, compared to $120,000 previously; Category B+ players $125,000; Category B players $115,000, compared to $100,000 previously; and Category C players would get $100,000, an increase of $20,000. Bravo said that Hinds' assertion was "inaccurate." According to Bravo, the matter was never discussed at the AGM and a perusal of the minutes made that clear. "Yet, you inaccurately stated that we got a 300% increase in match fees when the truth is the players are in fact receiving 90% less from what previously existed in our overall fees," Bravo wrote. He also wondered why the 25% participation fee paid to the players by the WICB for playing in various ICC tournaments was erased completely. "To cut the participation fee from players who play at ICC events from 25% to zero is unbelievable. Mr. Hinds, we have asked for a comparative analysis of what the players earned last contractual year and what they would earn given this new purported MOU. Instead you have presented figures to signal that WIPA got an increase for the players. This is not correct. We once again call on you to provide this comparison."

[yuppie]

So after this debacle and what follows over the coming weeks.

Why would a country board want the Windies to come and play.

Maybe this is the death of WI cricket

[mikesiva]

The Board of Directors was briefed of the latest developments and as a result of decisions taken the WICB advises:

The WICB clarifies that players in the West Indies Squad currently in India represented by Mr. Dwayne Bravo indicated to the WICB through the West Indies Team Management that the players have taken a decision to withdraw their services for the remainder of the tour of India. As a result of this action by the players the WICB was left with no option but to advise the BCCI that it will no longer be able to provide a West Indies team for the remaining five matches (5th ODI, T20 International, three Test matches)
The WICB wishes to further clarify that its proposed alternative arrangement of a replacement West Indies team was not considered acceptable. The WICB is understanding of this
The WICB unreservedly apologises to West Indian fans and all cricket fans for this most regrettable situation and the premature end to the tour.
.The WICB unreservedly apologises to the BCCI, their sponsors, broadcasters and other stakeholders for the premature end to the tour.
The WICB thanks the BCCI, their sponsors, broadcasters, other stakeholders and fans for their patience and understanding during the first four ODIs. The WICB wishes the BCCI every success with the proposed alternative arrangements and looks forward to the continuation of the strong and longstanding relationship between the two boards.
The WICB clarifies further that as a result of postulations by the players, the tour was under a cloud of uncertainty from the inception. The WICB, acting prudently, advised the host board – BCCI – of the developments and remained in constant contact to provide updates as to the threat of possible player action.
The WICB will host an emergency Board Meeting on Tuesday October 21st, in Barbados, to conduct a thorough assessment of all the ramifications of the premature end to the tour and any action which may be necessary therefrom. The WICB will host a media conference following this meeting. Further details will be provided upon confirmation.
The WICB regrets that the delegation which was pre-scheduled to travel to India to meet with the players on a number of issues will no longer be able to conduct such meeting at which the intention was also to discuss the concerns of the players. The delegation had included WICB Chief Executive Officer Mr. Michael Muirhead, Chairman of the Cricket Committee Mr. Julian Charles and also WIPA President and CEO Mr. Wavell Hinds. The delegation had been scheduled to arrive in India on Monday October 20. This meeting was scheduled prior to any issues being raised with the New MOU/CBA and it was intended to acquaint all the parties of how it would roll out. This was necessary as the WICB did not have an opportunity to so do in the Caribbean due to the logistical challenges of assembling all the players prior to departure for the tour of India (some of the players were already in India participating in the Champions League). The WICB CEO, Mr. Muirhead and WIPA President/CEO Mr. Hinds had been in negotiations with regard to finding a mutually agreeable position to allow for the full tour to be completed.
The WICB further regrets that in his initial communication to the WIPA President and CEO Mr. Hinds, Mr. Bravo chose to use inflammatory language and issue a clear threat to cause injury to West Indies cricket.

Specifically Mr. Bravo wrote: “Please note that we are giving you the opportunity to right this wrong before things deteriorate [sic] to such an extent that West Indies cricket to the wider cricket world looks to fall to its knees again.”

The WICB reiterates that as a result of the action taken by the players the Board was forced with no other option but to discontinue the tour. The Board once again apologises unreservedly for the premature end to the tour.

Finally, the WICB advises that the West Indies A Team tour of Sri Lanka continues as scheduled.

http://www.windiesfans.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=50

[SaintPowelly]

So, is the tour cancelled then ??

[hopeforthebest]

This has been brewing for a long time, a battle between a relatively cash strapped cricket board and senior players emboldened by the riches they can earn playing T20 tournaments around the world. To blame it on the recent changes at the ICC is too simplistic and probably untrue.