Is West Indies cricket dead ?

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby greyblazer » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:04 am

Rampaul is showing a better attitude. Hopefully others can follow him.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:27 pm

Otis Gibson is trying to keep his team focussed, with all the controversy about Gayle reeling around the team....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/ ... 21629.html

"It's been going on for a while and I am trying my best not to get distracted by it. I have 13 other players here and the ODI squad and a whole lot of bigger issues to deal with. I believe - and you might say otherwise - there are signs of improvement in our team. We are fielding well, the bowling unit is good - we have bowled India out twice. We need the batsmen to support our bowlers and if they start doing that we have the makings of a side capable of winning matches."
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby greyblazer » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:10 pm

Yes Simmons hasn't done well in the test series but how can they drop a talented batsman without giving him a decent run in the side?
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:59 pm

After five Tests against Pakistan and India, here are the players who passed the Rampaul Test....

1) Kirk Edwards - ave 58 (116 runs)
2) Shiv Chanderpaul - ave 51 (304 runs)
3) Marlon Samuels - ave 32 (159 runs)
4) Darren Bravo - ave 31 (310 runs)
5) Adrian Barath - ave 25 (150 runs)
6) Carlton Baugh - ave 20 (180 runs)

7) Ravi Rampaul - ave 19 (117 runs)

8) Lendl Simmons - ave 17.5 (140 runs)
9) Darren Sammy - ave 16 (156 runs)
10) Ronnie Sarwan - ave 10 (83 runs)
11) Brendan Nash - ave 9 (54 runs)
12) Kraigg Brathwaite - ave 7.5 (15 runs
13) Devon Smith - ave 7 (14 runs)
14) Kieran Powell - ave 3.5 (7 runs)

Finally, a team is beginning to emerge, even without Gayle....

1) Adrian Barath
2) Lendl Simmons/Kraigg Brathwaite
3) Kirk Edwards
4) Darren Bravo
5) Shiv Chanderpaul
6) Marlon Samuels
7) Carlton Baugh (kept well, and batted well towards the end of the series)
8) Darren Sammy
9) Ravi Rampaul
10) Fidel Edwards
11) Dev Bishoo

12) Kemar Roach
13) Andre Russell
14) Shane Shillingford/Suleimann Benn
Nobody has a stance quite like the mighty Shivnarine....

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Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby Stroller95 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:00 pm

Crikey, shiv is Clyde Butt.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby keshto » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:06 am

Remember this Test : http://www.espncricinfo.com/wivzimsa/en ... 98801.html
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby keshto » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:09 am

Darren Ganga and Sammy in the team.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:58 am

Stroller95 wrote:Crikey, shiv is Clyde Butt.

:lol:
The WICB could learn from Jamaican athletics in so many ways.

This is not a novel assertion to make: Grenada PM Keith Mitchell said it not so long ago. But I've just read something in the Sunday Times magazine that made me think along those lines again. I can't post a link, because the Times is a part of the evil Murdoch empire, which you have to pay to view online.
:twisted:
The interviewer is asking Usain Bolt about the history of performance-enhancing drugs in the sport of athletics, and he's easily handling the questions that come his way. Eventually, this paragraph comes up in the story:

'His handlers are getting edgy. They want me to quit this line of questioning. My time is limited, but this is important, I insist. An awkward pause ensues. The sponsors are looking at the manager; the manager is looking at me: I am looking at the world's fastest man. Bolt, predictably, doesn't have a problem with discussing the issue. "It's okay," he says. We move on to the subject of London 2012.'

Clearly, the managers and the sponsor's reps were doing their jobs. They were ensuring that no story gets side-tracked into some negative story that could spiral out of control. That is what any media officer worth his salt should be doing.

So, what was the manager and the media officer doing when Chris Gayle gave that interview to the Guardian the last time the West Indies toured England? Any manager or media manager worth his salt would've squashed that I-don't-care-about-Test-cricket comment in the bud, but they don't seem to have been present at the interview.

The question is, has the WICB learnt from that experience? Are they as professional as the teams surrounding top Jamaican athletes? I don't think so....
Nobody has a stance quite like the mighty Shivnarine....

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby ChrisQ » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:58 pm

mikesiva wrote:
Stroller95 wrote:Crikey, shiv is Clyde Butt.

:lol:
The WICB could learn from Jamaican athletics in so many ways.


Actually Jamaican athletics is not what it appears. The Jamaican Athletics Administrative Association (JAAA) is not responsible for Bolt. Bolt and a lot of the others are basically managed by a private groups (The "Racers Track Club" and The "Maximising Velocity and Power Club" or "MVP Club") coached by Glen Mills and Stephen Francis. There is no love lost between the MVP and JAAA (See: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2009 ... orts1.html and http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2009 ... sure4.html and http://z15.invisionfree.com/SprintZone/ar/t4841.htm) with MVP athletes having skipped "mandatory" JAAA training camps for both the 2008 Games and 2009 Championships. Take out the MVP and Racers and Jamaican athletes would still do well, but not nearly as well (an example would be Sherone Simpson who prior to joining the MVP hadn't won a race apparently but has since gotten medals at the World Championships, Commonwealth Games and Olympic Games).

This is not a novel assertion to make: Grenada PM Keith Mitchell said it not so long ago. But I've just read something in the Sunday Times magazine that made me think along those lines again. I can't post a link, because the Times is a part of the evil Murdoch empire, which you have to pay to view online.
:twisted:
The interviewer is asking Usain Bolt about the history of performance-enhancing drugs in the sport of athletics, and he's easily handling the questions that come his way. Eventually, this paragraph comes up in the story:

'His handlers are getting edgy. They want me to quit this line of questioning. My time is limited, but this is important, I insist. An awkward pause ensues. The sponsors are looking at the manager; the manager is looking at me: I am looking at the world's fastest man. Bolt, predictably, doesn't have a problem with discussing the issue. "It's okay," he says. We move on to the subject of London 2012.'

Clearly, the managers and the sponsor's reps were doing their jobs. They were ensuring that no story gets side-tracked into some negative story that could spiral out of control. That is what any media officer worth his salt should be doing.

So, what was the manager and the media officer doing when Chris Gayle gave that interview to the Guardian the last time the West Indies toured England? Any manager or media manager worth his salt would've squashed that I-don't-care-about-Test-cricket comment in the bud, but they don't seem to have been present at the interview.


This is very faulty reasoning. You assume that Gayle even wanted to have the WI team manager and/or media manager present. Given his rebellious nature that would be totally out of character for our "rebel without a cause" and he would likely have considered it as WICB attempts to "muzzle" him or restrict his freedom of speech and movement. We can attempt to make up any number of excuses for Gayle (he was misinterpreted, his managers were not around so it is the WICB's fault for the interview) but at the end of the day Gayle is 31 years old, not 1 year old and he has to take responsibility for his words and actions. Note that despite the media's apparent attempt to side-track Bolt into a negative story, Bolt is able to handle himself well and continues discussing the potentially negative issue of drugs in athletics whereas his handlers would have loved for the issue to have been avoided entirely. Yet at no point is Bolt silly enough to say anything along the lines of "I did drugs" or "I think they should just do away with drug testing". Bolt has enough sense to think before he speaks unlike Gayle (unfortunately Bolt seems to have taken to a lot of partying like Gayle (his picture appears in the papers at a LOT of usually late night parties) over the past 12 or so months (I've seen him at Jouvert and his picture appears frequently in the papers at the parties he has been to, most of which I've never attended) and his form seems to have dropped off remarkably - he was given a proper scare by Carter at the Monaco Diamond League only a few days ago and didn't look like he was totally dominant.

The question is, has the WICB learnt from that experience? Are they as professional as the teams surrounding top Jamaican athletes? I don't think so....


Bolt's handlers are not the JAAA but the Racers Track Club which is a private outfit and not the governing body of athletics in any country or territory. The Racers does have non-Jamaican athletes such as Daniel Bailey from Antigua (who was also in the MVP club alongside Andrew Hinds from Barbados, Simeon Williamson from Britain and Powell, Foster-Hylton and Sherone Simpson from Jamaica). So the analogy doesn't hold. The closest thing that exists in West Indies cricket would be WIPMACOL (The West Indies Players Management Company Limited) which is in theory a private group that is supposed to control the players' image rights and due to the extensive crossover (some would call it "incest") between WIPMACOL and WIPA, then WIPMACOL is basically the agent for WI players. So if the West Indies Players MANAGEMENT Company Limited is not managing Gayle properly (and remember Gayle signed his image rights over to them, not the WICB) then how would it be the WICB's fault if Gayle's image has been tarnished in a personal interview?

I wouldn't even bother to question whether or not WIPA and WIPMACOL are professional because the entire management of both entities reeks of corruption; the West Indies Players' Association president is Ramnarine and yet the West Indies Players' Association CEO is...Ramnarine. On WIPA's own website it states that the "Executive" of the organization has elected and appointed members and the elected members are the President, Vice President, Secretary, Assistant-Secretary, Treasurer and Regional Coordinator (all of whom serve as Directors of WIPA as well by the way) and that these elected members then have the role of "appointing the CEO and monitoring his/her work". How that works in practice with Ramnarine appointing himself as CEO and then monitoring his own work is beyond me. WIPMACOL is also managed/directed by Ramnarine who has the power to reshuffle directors in both WIPA and WIPMACOL. Now I'm pretty sure that if the WICB were run this way with the President (say Julian Hunte) appointing himself as CEO and being tasked with monitoring the CEO's work (and implicitly sanctioning the CEO for any failures) and also being able to reshuffle the directors then lots of people would be calling for a crusade to sack WICB headquarters and put Hunte's head on a pike.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Sun May 20, 2012 5:13 pm

"This partly depends on the opposition, however. On Thursday afternoon, as the big-hearted but modestly-talented Darren Sammy tried to impose himself on England's bowling attack, the scoreboards flashed up a message: "The Aussies Are Coming 2013". Well, if even the England and Wales Cricket Board are preoccupied by an Ashes series more than 12 months away, what chance the here and now? Meanwhile, the disturbing dearth of West Indian supporters – walking around the ground during the first-day tea interval, I counted only three, one of whom was a steward – is an even more potent symbol of the Caribbean's cricketing decline. It would be stretching a point to say that Lord's during a Test match against the West Indies in the 1980s was like Trinidad during Carnival, or even like The Oval, but there was at least a flavour of jerk chicken to proceedings. Maybe it will be livelier today."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cric ... 66977.html
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Aidan11 » Mon May 21, 2012 8:55 am

WIs are on for a shock win today.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Mon May 21, 2012 10:46 am

Aidan11 wrote:WIs are on for a shock win today.

:hide
I can partly explain this fall-off in support among Caribbean fans in England. It costs £60-£70-odd to go to a match in England, and it's painful to spend all that money to watch your team lose yet again. That's one of the reasons why I'm not parting with my hard-earned money to go to one of these Test matches.

Also, when I speak to young black Britons of Caribbean descent, West Indian cricketers are not their heroes, because of this losing streak. Their heroes are footballers such as Jermaine Defoe, Darren Bent, Ashley Cole, Theo Walcott, Joleon Lescott and Danny Welbeck, because they win trophies.

But there is one place where you will see more Caribbean fans than at Test matches, and that's track meets. There will be lots of Caribbean fans at the Crystal Palace Diamond League meet from July 13-14, and at the London Olympics. There, they will see Caribbean sportsmen and sportswomen winning....

I have also bought tickets to Crystal Palace and the London Olympics.
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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:21 pm

ChrisQ wrote:
mikesiva wrote:
Stroller95 wrote:Crikey, shiv is Clyde Butt.

:lol:
The WICB could learn from Jamaican athletics in so many ways.


Actually Jamaican athletics is not what it appears. The Jamaican Athletics Administrative Association (JAAA) is not responsible for Bolt. Bolt and a lot of the others are basically managed by a private groups (The "Racers Track Club" and The "Maximising Velocity and Power Club" or "MVP Club") coached by Glen Mills and Stephen Francis. There is no love lost between the MVP and JAAA (See: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2009 ... orts1.html and http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2009 ... sure4.html and http://z15.invisionfree.com/SprintZone/ar/t4841.htm) with MVP athletes having skipped "mandatory" JAAA training camps for both the 2008 Games and 2009 Championships. Take out the MVP and Racers and Jamaican athletes would still do well, but not nearly as well (an example would be Sherone Simpson who prior to joining the MVP hadn't won a race apparently but has since gotten medals at the World Championships, Commonwealth Games and Olympic Games).

This is not a novel assertion to make: Grenada PM Keith Mitchell said it not so long ago. But I've just read something in the Sunday Times magazine that made me think along those lines again. I can't post a link, because the Times is a part of the evil Murdoch empire, which you have to pay to view online.
:twisted:
The interviewer is asking Usain Bolt about the history of performance-enhancing drugs in the sport of athletics, and he's easily handling the questions that come his way. Eventually, this paragraph comes up in the story:

'His handlers are getting edgy. They want me to quit this line of questioning. My time is limited, but this is important, I insist. An awkward pause ensues. The sponsors are looking at the manager; the manager is looking at me: I am looking at the world's fastest man. Bolt, predictably, doesn't have a problem with discussing the issue. "It's okay," he says. We move on to the subject of London 2012.'

Clearly, the managers and the sponsor's reps were doing their jobs. They were ensuring that no story gets side-tracked into some negative story that could spiral out of control. That is what any media officer worth his salt should be doing.

So, what was the manager and the media officer doing when Chris Gayle gave that interview to the Guardian the last time the West Indies toured England? Any manager or media manager worth his salt would've squashed that I-don't-care-about-Test-cricket comment in the bud, but they don't seem to have been present at the interview.


This is very faulty reasoning. You assume that Gayle even wanted to have the WI team manager and/or media manager present. Given his rebellious nature that would be totally out of character for our "rebel without a cause" and he would likely have considered it as WICB attempts to "muzzle" him or restrict his freedom of speech and movement. We can attempt to make up any number of excuses for Gayle (he was misinterpreted, his managers were not around so it is the WICB's fault for the interview) but at the end of the day Gayle is 31 years old, not 1 year old and he has to take responsibility for his words and actions. Note that despite the media's apparent attempt to side-track Bolt into a negative story, Bolt is able to handle himself well and continues discussing the potentially negative issue of drugs in athletics whereas his handlers would have loved for the issue to have been avoided entirely. Yet at no point is Bolt silly enough to say anything along the lines of "I did drugs" or "I think they should just do away with drug testing". Bolt has enough sense to think before he speaks unlike Gayle (unfortunately Bolt seems to have taken to a lot of partying like Gayle (his picture appears in the papers at a LOT of usually late night parties) over the past 12 or so months (I've seen him at Jouvert and his picture appears frequently in the papers at the parties he has been to, most of which I've never attended) and his form seems to have dropped off remarkably - he was given a proper scare by Carter at the Monaco Diamond League only a few days ago and didn't look like he was totally dominant.

The question is, has the WICB learnt from that experience? Are they as professional as the teams surrounding top Jamaican athletes? I don't think so....


Bolt's handlers are not the JAAA but the Racers Track Club which is a private outfit and not the governing body of athletics in any country or territory. The Racers does have non-Jamaican athletes such as Daniel Bailey from Antigua (who was also in the MVP club alongside Andrew Hinds from Barbados, Simeon Williamson from Britain and Powell, Foster-Hylton and Sherone Simpson from Jamaica). So the analogy doesn't hold..

There is one very big difference between West Indies cricket and Caribbean athletics, and it's summed up by one of the opening lines of his book 'Usain Bolt: My Story'....

"I chose to be a sprinter, not only because I was the fastest kid in school, but also because I knew that politics couldn't interfere. In team sports it can be down to opinion whether you are the best. One coach might think you're good enough for his team, another might not, or the side could be picked on friendship or family ties. But in athletics you are either the fastest or you aren't - opinion doesn't come into it." p13

Says it all, doesn't it?
Nobody has a stance quite like the mighty Shivnarine....

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:01 am

Ottis Gibson has signed a new 3 year contract to remain as WIs coach

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Re: Is West Indies cricket dead ?

Postby mikesiva » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:26 am

Aidan11 wrote:Ottis Gibson has signed a new 3 year contract to remain as WIs coach

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21 ... Cricket%29


I have mixed feelings about this....

Yes, Gibson has made the team fitter, and all players are now required to follow a serious fitness regime, like they used to under Dennis Waight, and before Lara pushed out Waight and dropped the whole scheme. But on the other hand, the clash with the senior players that lasted a year or more was entirely of Gibson's own making, and totally unnecessary. Under him and Toby Radford, they've pushed young players like Kraigg Brathwaite to the fore long before they were ready.

Under Gibson, the Windies won the world T20 champs, but that can be attributed to some of their players getting a lot of experience playing in T20 leagues around the world, something he resisted, and has only recently come to accept. The Test team has stagnated in seventh place, and the ODI team is in decline....
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