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The current series against New Zealand has seen the West Indies hit a new low....

There are several reasons for our decline:

1) County cricket being closed to West Indian players by ECB. Batsmen could no longer learn how to bat in conditions that encouraged you to move your feet, and bowlers could no longer learn to swing the ball.

2) Rise of athletics as a regional sport for success. It started with Quarrie and Crawford in 1976, at which time cricket was more popular than athletics in Jamaica. By the mid-1990s, that had changed in Jamaica, and now athletics have made inroads into getting talented sportsmen in places like Trinidad (Gordon, Walcott), St Kitts (Collins), Antigua (Bailey), Barbados (Brathwaite), Grenada (James), etc. My point about athletics is that we have a small population in the Caribbean, and a small pool of potential talented sportsmen. Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake both played cricket ahead of sprinting when they were at school, but both were persuaded, and opted, for athletics instead. They are both tall, powerful men, who could've been pace bowlers in another era, i.e. Holding, Patterson, Walsh. But now we can only produce short pace bowlers, like Taylor, Edwards and Best. I believe this is one of the reasons why....

3) Popularity of football, despite corruption and incompetence of CFU. Jamaica's qualification for the World Cup in 1998, and Trinidad in 2006, meant that football put further distance between themselves and cricket in those two countries, even though the national football programmes in those countries have been crap since then. I was in Jamaica last month, and all they could talk about was the failed World Cup campaign. A lot of folks didn't seem to be even aware that a cricket series was going on in New Zealand!

4) Fast-food mentality of the present generation means that they have no patience for Test cricket, and even ODI cricket. Youngsters are interested in sports that they can go to after work, and witness a completed result, i.e. a football match, or a T20 match.

5) Declining interest in cricket in the schools. When I went to school in Jamaica in the 1980s, we were able to produce cricket teams for every year group, i.e. first form, second form, etc. Now, the same school struggles to pull together an XI from the entire school to represent them at the schoolboy competitions. Michael Holding says the problem is the same at his alma mater. This has even affected the inaugural T20 competition in Jamaica. I see only eight schools were able to field teams for this competition. Ten times as many teams take part in the schoolboy football and athletics competitions....

6) Incompetence by successive WICB regimes have alienated a Caribbean public, leading to increased calls to "go it alone".

7) Increased irrelevance of the West Indies as a grouping. It has relevance to those of us on the wrong side of 40, who remember the Federation, and the movement for independence. But to youngsters nowadays, they are more interested in national allegiances. During the CPL, teams which bore national names drew larger crowds than the West Indies, i.e. Antigua Hawksbills filled North Sound for the first time ever, and Sabina Park was packed for the first time since the 1990s to witness the Jamaica Tallawahs.

The money of the IPL may be a stimulus to talent though MIke? And is cricket popular among those with Indian ancestors? It may be that spinners, and helpful pitches, could make WI more competitive at home, as there may not be that overlap with athletics there?

mikesiva wrote:The current series against New Zealand has seen the West Indies hit a new low....

There are several reasons for our decline:

1) County cricket being closed to West Indian players by ECB. Batsmen could no longer learn how to bat in conditions that encouraged you to move your feet, and bowlers could no longer learn to swing the ball.

Since when?

Alviro Patterson wrote:

mikesiva wrote:The current series against New Zealand has seen the West Indies hit a new low....

There are several reasons for our decline:

1) County cricket being closed to West Indian players by ECB. Batsmen could no longer learn how to bat in conditions that encouraged you to move your feet, and bowlers could no longer learn to swing the ball.

Since when?

Only the players that are in the current squad or have played a certain number of internationals can get a county contract now. I think any West Indian domestic cricketer could get one before but now they have to meet the strict overseas criteria.

England's_No7 wrote:

Alviro Patterson wrote:

mikesiva wrote:The current series against New Zealand has seen the West Indies hit a new low....

There are several reasons for our decline:

1) County cricket being closed to West Indian players by ECB. Batsmen could no longer learn how to bat in conditions that encouraged you to move your feet, and bowlers could no longer learn to swing the ball.

Since when?

Only the players that are in the current squad or have played a certain number of internationals can get a county contract now. I think any West Indian domestic cricketer could get one before but now they have to meet the strict overseas criteria.

Cheers No7

A bit harsh to single out a nation and a cricketing body for a lack of opportunities, when other nations are also affected. Trent Copeland (Australia) is no longer eligible to play for Northamptonshire next season, despite making a positive contribution.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:The money of the IPL may be a stimulus to talent though MIke? And is cricket popular among those with Indian ancestors? It may be that spinners, and helpful pitches, could make WI more competitive at home, as there may not be that overlap with athletics there?

Yes, cricket is popular with those of East Indian ancestry, but they are mainly in Trinidad and Guyana. Hence, cricket is still the number one sport in Guyana. In Trinidad, though, we're seeing the black population moving towards football and athletics, while the Asian population is cricket-oriented. It still amounts to a declining pool of potential talent. The fact that every Windies side is almost half Asian does tell its own story, when you consider that the other islands in the Caribbean have a very small Asian population.

The success of the IPL and T20 cricket should probably be seen as a separate phenomenon. There are young fans now who are only interested in that format, and have no time for the longer formats. That is where the money is, and that is where the crowds are.

With regards to county cricket, it was a historical observation, not a matter of finger-pointing. Back in the 1980s, some counties would have more than one Windies player. Then, the rule came in place limiting the overseas players to one, and as a result the opportunity for promising WI players to get an introduction to county cricket was no longer there as counties opted for experienced pros. That meant two things - WI players only really got experience of playing in their own conditions, and it closed an opportunity to earn money with your cricketing skills in case you didn't make the West Indies side. For example, a Franklyn Stephenson could earn good money in county cricket, and yet never play for the Windies. That is unlikely to happen again.

At least now there's T20 cricket for those players who are on the fringe, i.e. Kevon Cooper, etc. It's not surprising, therefore, that T20 cricket is becoming a priority for young players who want to increase their chances of earning an income from their talents.

It is rarely about tall or shorter ones hehe. Migual Cummins, Pollard (dibbly dobblers), Kevin Cooper, Delorn Johnson, Jason Holder, Coterrell, Russell and from the little bit I saw of Kevin McLean are all tall. To bowl quick and succeed as a pacer you need a big heart. An athletic build is necessary but most of the Windies pacers since Amby, Bish and Walsh have tended to bowl just for the sake of it and that will take you nowhere. I like what I see of Cummins though. He runs in hard every ball and him not playing for West Indies is madness.

greyblazer wrote:It is rarely about tall or shorter ones hehe. Migual Cummins, Pollard (dibbly dobblers), Kevin Cooper, Delorn Johnson, Jason Holder, Coterrell, Russell and from the little bit I saw of Kevin McLean are all tall. To bowl quick and succeed as a pacer you need a big heart. An athletic build is necessary but most of the Windies pacers since Amby, Bish and Walsh have tended to bowl just for the sake of it and that will take you nowhere. I like what I see of Cummins though. He runs in hard every ball and him not playing for West Indies is madness.

Parochial selections...and with the latest takeover of the ICC by the Big Three, and the WICB's lack of guts in standing up to them, it's making West Indies cricket more and more anachronistic. The only thing holding the WIndies together now is the ICC, which won't let them break up.

What's the case for going it alone? Ireland got absolutely hammered by Guyana in their tour of the Caribbean....

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19950&p=471367#p471367

Ireland are being touted as the next team to get Test status, and there are questions arising about them playing Bangladesh in a playoff. But how is Ireland doing in their tour of the Caribbean?

Guyana bussin Ireland's tail prompts me to question associate standards, and reassess the viability of going it alone. If Ireland are the next team in line to get Test status, then the West Indies could easily split up, and we could see separate entities of Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago, Barbados, Guyana, Windwards and Leewards applying for separate Test status....

Yeah maybe , mike ...one or two of them might hold their own at home ; but they'd all get murdered away.

Truly I cannot see much of a case for Ireland or anyone else being added to the Test playing countries. The ones that are already playing are struggling to attract crowds to watch them outside the big three , and I am not optimistic about this changing ...
In a way , Test Cricket is something of an anachronism in the modern sporting world : five days , often for no result , and - unavoidably - mostly played during the working week. Only TV makes it in any way economically viable ; and while tradition dictates it is safe enough for the foreseeable future in England and Australia , and presumably also in India , the same cannot be said for the other countries who only finance it on cross subsidies . So I am not sure why many people seem to think we can sell it to the Americans or the Chinese.
Understand I really do not mind if Ireland want to play Afghanistan over five days and call it a Test : I just don't see it leading anywhere. Without a proper first class competition no one is going to crack the top echelon ...I think the Associates would be far better off trying to develop their limited overs teams ; for that is where the global future lies for cricket.

Hopefully Test Cricket will survive too : but I suspect we might see a little scaling back of the number of matches over the next few years. I would hate to see West Indies lost to the game ; and I don't think it will be . They might not be making five match tours of England or Australia in the near future , but as long as they keep playing the long game as well as the TV friendly short stuff the tradition won't die. Not before most of us anyway

mikesiva wrote:The current series against New Zealand has seen the West Indies hit a new low....

There are several reasons for our decline:

1) County cricket being closed to West Indian players by ECB. Batsmen could no longer learn how to bat in conditions that encouraged you to move your feet, and bowlers could no longer learn to swing the ball.

2) Rise of athletics as a regional sport for success. It started with Quarrie and Crawford in 1976, at which time cricket was more popular than athletics in Jamaica. By the mid-1990s, that had changed in Jamaica, and now athletics have made inroads into getting talented sportsmen in places like Trinidad (Gordon, Walcott), St Kitts (Collins), Antigua (Bailey), Barbados (Brathwaite), Grenada (James), etc. My point about athletics is that we have a small population in the Caribbean, and a small pool of potential talented sportsmen. Usain Bolt and Yohan Blake both played cricket ahead of sprinting when they were at school, but both were persuaded, and opted, for athletics instead. They are both tall, powerful men, who could've been pace bowlers in another era, i.e. Holding, Patterson, Walsh. But now we can only produce short pace bowlers, like Taylor, Edwards and Best. I believe this is one of the reasons why....

3) Popularity of football, despite corruption and incompetence of CFU. Jamaica's qualification for the World Cup in 1998, and Trinidad in 2006, meant that football put further distance between themselves and cricket in those two countries, even though the national football programmes in those countries have been crap since then. I was in Jamaica last month, and all they could talk about was the failed World Cup campaign. A lot of folks didn't seem to be even aware that a cricket series was going on in New Zealand!

4) Fast-food mentality of the present generation means that they have no patience for Test cricket, and even ODI cricket. Youngsters are interested in sports that they can go to after work, and witness a completed result, i.e. a football match, or a T20 match.

5) Declining interest in cricket in the schools. When I went to school in Jamaica in the 1980s, we were able to produce cricket teams for every year group, i.e. first form, second form, etc. Now, the same school struggles to pull together an XI from the entire school to represent them at the schoolboy competitions. Michael Holding says the problem is the same at his alma mater. This has even affected the inaugural T20 competition in Jamaica. I see only eight schools were able to field teams for this competition. Ten times as many teams take part in the schoolboy football and athletics competitions....

6) Incompetence by successive WICB regimes have alienated a Caribbean public, leading to increased calls to "go it alone".

7) Increased irrelevance of the West Indies as a grouping. It has relevance to those of us on the wrong side of 40, who remember the Federation, and the movement for independence. But to youngsters nowadays, they are more interested in national allegiances. During the CPL, teams which bore national names drew larger crowds than the West Indies, i.e. Antigua Hawksbills filled North Sound for the first time ever, and Sabina Park was packed for the first time since the 1990s to witness the Jamaica Tallawahs.

A good and thoughtful post about the reasons for your decline in world cricket BUT this game was made for you and as long as there are West Indians there will be a West Indies cricket team. You may not reach the heights of the 1980's but you will always be entertaining and there's always a chance of another Headley, Weeks; Worrell, Walcott, Haynes? Greenidge, Richards, Marshall, Roberts, Walsh,,Gibbs, Ambrose, Hall and Nurse but I regret never another Sobers.
When I played I always wished there had been a little more West Indian in me.

The talk with West Indies always seems to be about the fast bowling....but for me the batting is a huge concern...aside from Shiv no one scores consistently for windies..

Powell is getting there, getting better and better with each game....but Gayle hasn't scored runs in any format for a long time..Bravo has good patches but not for long enoigh...samuels started well when he came back into the side, but has faded, away, and the number 6 spot is constantly being rotated...not to mention the fact that they haven't had a keeper capable of averaging 30+ for a long time either...

Where's the likes of Kirk Edwards,Deonarine etc....

Even Brendan Nash. He was made vice-captain then immediatly dropped, and now is having a good time at Kent...

Most of the T20 matches of the CPL were very well-attended. Let's see how many people turn up to watch the Test matches and ODIs against Bangladesh this month.

This can't help....

http://www.guardian.co.tt/sport/2014-08 ... -new-coach

"Information reaching the T&T Guardian is that he was likely to be replaced by for the former South Africa and Australia coach Mickey Arthur. The South African, Arthur recently finished his duties with the Jamaica Tallawahs in the Limacol Caribbean Premier League T20 tournament. WICB Cricket operations director Richard Pybus met with Gibson after a string of poor performances from the regional side. The two did not see eye to eye on many matters and in the end the WICB directors were made aware of the feelings of both Pybus and Gibson. The directors held a teleconference over the weekend and a decision was made to terminate the services of Gibson and the hunt was then on for a new coach."

Does this mean WI's players are going to have to do homework?

Aidan11 wrote:Does this mean WI's players are going to have to do homework?

Given that a couple of them are functionally illiterate, that may create some difficulties....

shame about Ottis 2 t's. He became one of my all time favourite cricketers after his heroics with Durham.

He can come back here any time, for me