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Re: Celtic cricket

Postby ChrisQ » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:45 am

Okay. I get it now. Well Ireland might lose for 10 years, but I think it would depend on how long they had a multi-day domestic competition in place before starting out with test cricket and what calibre their multi-day domestic competition would be (it would also depend on the experience any Irish players get in the English County Championship and if they can transfer some of that experience to their own multi-day domestic tournament). If Ireland had a multi-day domestic tournament for 5 years and during that time the senior Ireland team was playing in the intercontinental cup and playing against English counties and various A teams (e.g. England A/England Lions, Bangladesh A, India A, Australia A), then they may end up not going for a long period without winning their first test once they start playing tests (they should at least be able to start out with some draws and losses and maybe a win).
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Re: Canadian Cricket

Postby mikesiva » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:30 am

Problems in Canadian cricket....
:no
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/magazine ... 90772.html

They've fired their CEO, Atul Ahuja, without giving a reason.
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Re: Celtic cricket

Postby mikesiva » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:13 pm

Here's an interesting letter to the Jamaican high commission about a Jamaican cricketer's contribution to Scottish cricket....

As Provost (Mayor) of Stirling, it gives me great pleasure to advise you
that at Stirling, Scotland on 3rd April 2009, Stirling Council will
grant Freedom of the City of Stirling to Irvin Iffla in recognition of
his long standing commitment and contribution to the public life of the
City of Stirling as Sportsman and Citizen. This honour marks Irvin
Iffla's contribution to sport, and in particular cricket.

Irvin came to Stirling as a cricketer from Jamaica and I note below
details of his cricketing life here in Scotland. If the West Indies
Cricket Board or Jamaica Cricket Association would like to send a
message of congratulations to Irvin, please email back to me and I will
be pleased to have the message read out at the Freedom ceremony.

Irvin Iffla is a modest, family man who talks quietly and with some
reluctance about his past achievements. However he can look back with
pride on an outstanding career in Scottish cricket - over 13,000 runs
and over 1600 wickets.

Irvin came to Stirling from Jamaica - where at the age of 18 he had
become the youngest cricketer to represent the island and played against
the MCC in 1947. In 1951 he arrived to take up the post of professional
cricketer for Stirling County Cricket Club for that summer. His
original intention was to play for one season and then return home, but
almost 60 years later he is still here!

Irvin made such an impression in a series of friendly matches prior to
the Counties Championship programme, that Stirling County promptly
offered him a 5-year contract. They arranged for his wife, Lucille, and
their children - Maxine and Dennis - to join him in Stirling and the
Iffla family started a new life in Scotland which would change the fact
of Scottish cricket.

Before Irvin's arrival, cricket had been a low-profile sport in
Scotland. However Irvin's success encouraged increasing numbers to
the county cricket ground at Williamfield, and crowds of 2,000
spectators became a regular feature. Cricket had arrived in Stirling!

Stirling did not start the 1952 season as serious challengers for the
Championship. However they went on to win the title without losing a
single match and the championship came to Williamfield for the first
time.

In 1960 Irvin continued his career with other cricket clubs in both
west and east of Scotland - notably Ayr and Stenhousemuir. It was no
surprise that these clubs gained success when Irvin signed up for them
and he became the only player to win league medals in all three Scottish
major leagues.

Irvin returned to Stirling County from 1964 until 1968 when he took a
break due to problems with his shoulder.

However in 1975 he returned as an amateur and displayed incredible
prowess as a batsman at the age of 51. In fact, because he loved
playing cricket so much, Irvin continued to turn out for teams until he
was in his 60s - still scoring 50s and still taking wickets.

An outstanding career indeed and few will dispute that Irvin Iffla was
one of the greatest, and certainly one of the most respected cricketers
in Scotland.

He brought great credit to Stirling and it gives Stirling Council
pleasure to confer this civic honour in recognition.

Fergus Wood
Provost of Stirling
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Re: Celtic cricket

Postby wulliemc » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:26 pm

All of Scottish cricket is 50 overs. When I played years ago lower leagues only played 40 overs, not sure if that is still the case.

Maybe Ireland and Scotland should create a Celtic league and have regional teams from each country competing together in a single league?

Invitations could extend and possibly strengthen the league, but need to think a bit more about how.

Some might view this concept as weakening IRE and improving SCO, but it might give an opportunity to play multi day cricket. They could even start with Sat/Sun 2 day games as a kick off - not many in SCO are professional, which is why so many go down to ENG if they are good enough - you cant really make a living off cricket in SCO.

All of the above would take a stack of cash to operate, but counties could loan developing players and cross Irish Sea sponsorship might help.
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Re: Celtic cricket

Postby ChrisQ » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:00 am

wulliemc wrote:All of Scottish cricket is 50 overs. When I played years ago lower leagues only played 40 overs, not sure if that is still the case.

Maybe Ireland and Scotland should create a Celtic league and have regional teams from each country competing together in a single league?

Invitations could extend and possibly strengthen the league, but need to think a bit more about how.

Some might view this concept as weakening IRE and improving SCO, but it might give an opportunity to play multi day cricket. They could even start with Sat/Sun 2 day games as a kick off - not many in SCO are professional, which is why so many go down to ENG if they are good enough - you cant really make a living off cricket in SCO.

All of the above would take a stack of cash to operate, but counties could loan developing players and cross Irish Sea sponsorship might help.


Not a bad idea. Perhaps a league involving the regional teams from Scotland and Ireland with the best 4 teams from the league going on to play in the minor counties competition in England? (Of course if the best four are from Ireland then Scotland would miss out that season...)
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Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby ChrisQ » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:41 pm

I dunno - Ireland doesn't have any domestic multi-day matches which I think should be a must for any country that really wants to play tests......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/23 ... st-cricket

Ireland want chance to play test cricket

By PADRAIC HALPIN - Reuters Last updated 08:30 24/04/2009

Ireland deserve an opportunity to play test cricket having proved themselves in all forms of the game, the head of the country's cricket board said.

"Ireland is now in the same position Zimbabwe and Bangladesh were when they were elevated to test status," Cricket Ireland chief executive Warren Deutrom told Reuters.

"We have proven ourselves in all forms of the game to be head and shoulders above our rivals and we simply want the ICC to tell us what it is we are required to do."

"A diet of regular competition against senior players and senior teams is absolutely what is required next."

Ireland sprung a major surprise two years ago by beating Pakistan on their way to the Super Eight stage of the World Cup and Deutrom has since overseen a reform in Cricket Ireland's governance and balance sheets as they seek to join the elite.

Last week Ireland secured a place in the 2011 edition by winning the qualification tournament in South Africa.

Monday's nine-wicket final win over Canada maintained Irish dominance among associate members of the International Cricket Council, the game's world governing body.

TEST CRICKET

Ireland have won the past three Intercontinental Cups - a four-day competition for second tier nations - and were above Zimbabwe in the one-day rankings for the best part of two years having jumped to 10th in April 2007 after the World Cup.

Deutrom said Ireland should be given the chance to play test cricket as well as the minimum eight one-day internationals required over a two-year period to remain on the ICC's ODI table - a seat it earned with victory over Pakistan.

"We need to be assured that we are actually able to fulfil the minimum requirements and to at least stay on the table. We haven't got that at the moment but it has to be given," he said.

"Ireland should then be given at least the opportunity to play a test match against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, or whoever is going to be ranked nine or ten in the world in 2010."

Deutrom said Ireland risks losing more players to test teams with the 2012 to 2016 calendar soon to be finalised, a process he believes association nations appear set to be shut out of.

After Ed Joyce swapped his Irish colours for those of England in 2005, fellow Middlesex batsman Eoin Morgan was this month included in England's preliminary squad for June's Twenty20 World Cup.

"At the moment we are losing our best players because they naturally want to gravitate to the form of the game that best challenges their talents and that currently is test cricket," Deutrom said.

"This is not just for Ireland," he added regarding the urgency for a solution. "It's for all association nations."
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby yuppie » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:50 pm

The goal of all associate teams should be to get test cricket. One thing i would say is that Ireland are probably better placed than BD were when they got test cricket. But we all know BD was given test status to soon, even before they had a domestic league.

There is also politics involved, and i can not see with the way countries vote in blocks that Ireland have a chance of ever getting test status. Just my view.

I would like to see teams like ireland get more games against the top teams, at least 5 games a year out side of WC years. But sadly there is little revenue in teams playing associates like Ireland so i can not see it happening
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby mikesiva » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:58 pm

I'm worried Ireland could be another Bangladesh....

A couple of crucial things need to be put in place first.

1) As CQ points out, Ireland must have a multi-day domestic league to make it work. Otherwise, like Bangladesh, they will be okay at one-day cricket, but dismal at Tests....

2) What kind of crowd support exists for Test cricket? Or is it a minority sport, as it is in South Africa?

3) Will the Irish cricket association be able to pay their Test cricketers a wage for them to be professional?
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby yuppie » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:11 pm

mikesiva wrote:I'm worried Ireland could be another Bangladesh....

A couple of crucial things need to be put in place first.

1) As CQ points out, Ireland must have a multi-day domestic league to make it work. Otherwise, like Bangladesh, they will be okay at one-day cricket, but dismal at Tests....

2) What kind of crowd support exists for Test cricket? Or is it a minority sport, as it is in South Africa?

3) Will the Irish cricket association be able to pay their Test cricketers a wage for them to be professional?


Ireland is lucky in that a alot of their players already play in a multi day league in England. Its a good starting point, and perhaps we could see a league set up that encompasses Scotland and the Netherlands. Would be expensive but perhaps money well spent by the ICC.

Im not sure there is a large amount of support in Ireland for cricket. I would imagine that cricket is more popular in Northern Ireland, but considered a English game in the south and thus not well recieved. Though they did seem to get alot of support in the last WC.

As for paying the players, i would expect the ICC to help out for the first years. If Ireland did get test status or played more one dayers their revenue would go up, thus being able to pay players. Imagine if Ireland did get test status though, would make cricket tours over to the UK longer. 2 Tests against Ireland and then 3 tests against England. Good summer of cricket.
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby ChrisQ » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:48 pm

yuppie wrote:The goal of all associate teams should be to get test cricket. One thing i would say is that Ireland are probably better placed than BD were when they got test cricket. But we all know BD was given test status to soon, even before they had a domestic league.


Huh? Bangladesh got test status before starting a multi-day domestic league? Bangladesh used to be part of Pakistan until the 1970s and before that part of India until the 1940s. So there was first-class cricket in what is now Bangladesh from the 1930s until the 1970s and Bangladesh established it's 2-day national cricket league (later expanded to 4-day matches) in 1999 (one year before it got test status) and before that they had multi-day matches in the form of a national cricket championship (there was a 3-day final for that championship in 1997).

Right now Ireland has no multi-day cricket and I don't know if they had any history of multi-day cricket.

mikesiva wrote:I'm worried Ireland could be another Bangladesh....

A couple of crucial things need to be put in place first.

2) What kind of crowd support exists for Test cricket? Or is it a minority sport, as it is in South Africa?

3) Will the Irish cricket association be able to pay their Test cricketers a wage for them to be professional?


Very crucial questions. Especially the third one - they need to pay their own players like every other board.

yuppie wrote:
Ireland is lucky in that a alot of their players already play in a multi day league in England. Its a good starting point, and perhaps we could see a league set up that encompasses Scotland and the Netherlands. Would be expensive but perhaps money well spent by the ICC.


A good starting point, but their own league would be needed I think.


yuppie wrote: As for paying the players, i would expect the ICC to help out for the first years. If Ireland did get test status or played more one dayers their revenue would go up, thus being able to pay players. Imagine if Ireland did get test status though, would make cricket tours over to the UK longer. 2 Tests against Ireland and then 3 tests against England. Good summer of cricket.


I don't think this is a good habit to get CricketIreland into - being dependent on the ICC. I don't think any other board in the past got a start like this. Sure when NZ, WI and India were starting out it wasn't a professional sport but they pretty much helped themselves in organizing tours for their teams against English county teams and English touring teams and helped themselves otherwise. Likewise when cricket did become professional Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh didn't receive ICC help in paying their players. Given Ireland's relatively wealthy population it should be up to CricketIreland to determine how to get the public to pay to see cricket - the ICC could probably help CricketIreland there by proposing strategies but really it should be up to the Irish cricket authorities to get money into their own coffers. Given Ireland's fantastic performances in the 2007 World Cup and in the qualification for the 2011 World Cup it should have been easier for the Irish authorities to promote a domestic T20 league to bring in money, but if they haven't done so yet then they are squandering the publicity cricket got in Ireland. It is much more likely that Ireland will be able to pay its own players if it gets into the habit of doing so early and has to find ways of doing so before becoming a full member.
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby yuppie » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:14 pm

Chris i dont see how BD being involved in first class cricket as part of Pakistan before 1971 helped them prepare for test cricket in 2001. And as it was part of Pakistan it highlights that BD did not have first class cricket before it got test status. BDs first domestic season of multi day games was in 1999-00 season, but these were not classed as first class games. When BD was awarded test status they did not have a viable first class domestic system in place. And the effect of this on their test performaces since has shown through. At least there are a number of Irish players playing in a high class 4 day league. If Ireland was to get test status they would be better placed to compete than BD was when they entered test cricket IMHO.

I believe any team that gets test status will need funding from the ICC. This funding will not only be needed to pay players, but to build stadiums and facilities capable of hosting test cricket. Although teams will need to become self sufficent, to expect them to enter the test arena by funding them selves is not possible. The best way to increase revenue is by exposure and selling of television rights. THe money that would come in from this would replace the funding provided by the ICC. Zim at present gets nearly all its income from the ICC. Although Zim does not have test status at present, it still recieves most of its funding from the ICC, and would not be around with out it.
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby ChrisQ » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:17 pm

yuppie wrote:Chris i dont see how BD being involved in first class cricket as part of Pakistan before 1971 helped them prepare for test cricket in 2001. And as it was part of Pakistan it highlights that BD did not have first class cricket before it got test status. BDs first domestic season of multi day games was in 1999-00 season, but these were not classed as first class games. When BD was awarded test status they did not have a viable first class domestic system in place. And the effect of this on their test performaces since has shown through. At least there are a number of Irish players playing in a high class 4 day league. If Ireland was to get test status they would be better placed to compete than BD was when they entered test cricket IMHO.

I believe any team that gets test status will need funding from the ICC. This funding will not only be needed to pay players, but to build stadiums and facilities capable of hosting test cricket. Although teams will need to become self sufficent, to expect them to enter the test arena by funding them selves is not possible. The best way to increase revenue is by exposure and selling of television rights. THe money that would come in from this would replace the funding provided by the ICC. Zim at present gets nearly all its income from the ICC. Although Zim does not have test status at present, it still recieves most of its funding from the ICC, and would not be around with out it.


Bangladesh having first-class cricket experience from 1971 should have helped them prepare for test cricket in 2001 because the players who had experience of first-class cricket in the 1960s and 1970s would later tutor the players who would play from the 1980s onwards and they would also become the organizers of domestic tournament in the late 1990s and administrators in the 1990s and 2000s - it's probably why Bangladesh started off a decent enough note but then quickly faded away.

But first-class cricket is awarded differently today than it it was in the 1920s. In the 1920s-1960s just about any board could claim it's matches were first-class. Not so today from what I understand - which would explain the lack of first-class matches outside full member domestic tournaments and the Intercontinental Cup even though Argentina and Bermuda have multi-day domestic cricket (or had in the case of Bermuda) and why the regular multi-day fixture between Singapore and Malaysia is not first-class. And bangladesh did definitely have multi-day games before 1999-00 season - there was definitely at least one multi-day match in 1997 and it was a final match that was 3 days long and it's rather hard to believe that any organizer would organize a three-day final to a 40-over competition (as was the most prevalent format in Bangladesh in the 90s).

And I was referring to multi-day cricket, not specifically first-class cricket because I'm fairly sure that Ireland could not organize a first-class competition if it wanted (it would probably need the ICC to adjudge whether the domestic competition followed all first-class cricket guidelines and standards first) - but it could organize a multi-day domestic cricket competition that isn't first-class (just as Bangladesh did). Ireland may have players in the county competition, but how many? As much as 15? 11? Even if Ireland had 15 that would be a very small pool from which to start playing test cricket and the whole concept of Ireland having players in the county championship rests on the assumption that they will continue to have players in there even after they start playing test cricket and that Ireland will still be able to compete in the FP Trophy after gaining test status - seeing as how the ECB unceremoniously kicked the Netherlands out of the FP Trophy I would never bet on the ECB saying it was fine for another test playing nation (which their own England squad would have to face) to continue playing in the FP Trophy (just look on the furore over Hughes and Clarke) and although they couldn't exclude Irish players from county teams (EU rules and all) one can bet that they would start wooing them more heavily to play for England instead. Even so, Ireland would need a pool of about 40 players from which to choose a proper test team and have reserves. Look at what happened when they couldn't play all their players from the 2007 World Cup team - they went to Bangladesh and a team they beat in the World Cup whitewashed them 3-0 rather easily.

Besides, is it really that difficult for CricketIreland to say it want's to have a 2-day league among the 3 or 4 regional/provincial teams with matches played over consecutive Saturdays or over a Saturday and a Sunday? Even Kenya (which could only wish to be in CricketIreland's situation) attempted to start a 3-day league recently (but it had to be reduced to 2-day matches due to the disturbances surrounding the election I think). That I think would be more productive than calling for Test status without making any moves whatsoever to building domestic multi-day cricket.

So Ireland may start off fine and maybe win it's first test, but not one of it's players have ever had the experience of playing really long series and injuries are bound to pop up and when they do the team is weakened and the team will probably lose and then we will have people saying how they "weren't ready" like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

Zim at present gets nearly all its income from the ICC. Although Zim does not have test status at present, it still recieves most of its funding from the ICC, and would not be around with out it.


Exactly, and this is the kind of situation we want to avoid, not encourage. And Zimbabwe didn't start off getting nearly all of its income from ICC either.

This funding will not only be needed to pay players, but to build stadiums and facilities capable of hosting test cricket


Hmmm....some stadia are privately owned aren't they? Not sure how it would work getting public money to renovate private property. Others are government owned I think. In most cases I don't think it would easy for the ICC to fund building of stadiums. I would imagine that at times the clubs that oversee the stadia will take out loans and then repay those loans based on revenue to be derived from the new stadium.

Although teams will need to become self sufficent, to expect them to enter the test arena by funding them selves is not possible.


Why? Ireland as an island has 6 million people. And they are not poor like they were in the past. Ireland funds itself in football and rugby, so why not cricket? Where I live, the local football isn't really self-sufficient but that is only because the football body is too short-sighted and tries to go for increased prices over increased attendances. At some international matches they have attendances in the poor range of 30-40% and just barely manage to make a profit off of those matches (and note they still manage to make a bare profit on those matches on an island with 2.5 million people) - so their solution is to double prices instead of trying to double attendance. Naturally the increase in prices drives some people away. But regardless, such poor attendances are really pityful considering that second division club games in England will have better attendances than that - but that's because people there like football and (more importantly) are encouraged to attend (ads and so on). If CricketIreland made use of the team's profile to advertise for a domestic T20 tournament and get even 60% attendances at most matches I don't see why they couldn't make enough money to pay players - that's what the whole professional sport system is based off: spectators paying to see players (either on TV or at the grounds). And with good attendances then it will be easier to find buyers for the TV rights for domestic matches because broadcasters absolutely hate empty seats. Plus encouraging domestic attendance will always lead to good attendances for international matches (but not necessarily vice versa) so the international matches would also look attractive to TV networks and the rights to those could be sold as a separate package. Going for TV rights first won't work since they won't have anything to sell to any networks. It's why the Barclays' Premier League can sell it's TV rights for ridiculous prices but local leagues in a place like Aruba or Samoa would probably have to give those rights away for free if they want to have local football aired on TV.
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Re: Ireland want chance to play test cricket

Postby greyblazer » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:35 am

Losing players like Ed Joyce, and Morgan does not help either and I don't know what can be done to that as the better players will naturally move towards England and when we talk about players like Joyce, and Morgan we are talking about players who very skillful.
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Re: Celtic cricket

Postby mikesiva » Sat May 02, 2009 8:48 am

Eoin MOrgan has followed the precedent of Ed Joyce, and has been selected for England. Needless to say, the Irish cricket authorities are disappointed....

http://content.cricinfo.com/ireland/con ... 02482.html

"We are sad to lose Eoin to England, and we sincerely wish him all the very best in his future career," Deutrom said. "However, it shows that Irish cricket can produce players who are capable of competing on the world stage in the game's ultimate format. This only strengthens our argument to push ICC to let our best players realise their ambition of playing Test cricket with the green shamrock of the Ireland on their chest, rather than the three Lions of England. Eoin's departure, and Ed Joyce's before him, underlines the fact that Associate countries like Ireland will always lose our very best players until such time as we are shown a pathway to Test cricket by ICC. At the very time that ICC is investing in us to be better, this anomaly highlights where the real change needs to come in the world game."
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Re: Celtic cricket

Postby wulliemc » Sat May 02, 2009 9:00 am

not sure I like the way this keeps happening. Not sure there is a winner anywhere in this situation continuing, unless one of them goes on to be a regular test player. Think no matter how sentimental anyone is, IRL are miles away from being a Test nation, but players having a crack at the big time and cutting themselves of from future exposure to international cricket is a high risk strategy.
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