Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

I have just thought of one potential snag to this whole idea. I was in Ireland on a cricket tour in the summer and one of their executives was saying how they loved this annual cricket festival as it is the only time that anyone in Ireland gets the chance to play a timed form at of a game. Within all of their leagues, they only play 50 over games every week. Without the development of this timed form of the game at the lower levels, it will be very hard for Ireland to compete within the County Championship. It, I suspect, would be even harder for the regions to perform well in either the 2nd XI Championship or the Minor Counties league.

braveneutral wrote:I have just thought of one potential snag to this whole idea. I was in Ireland on a cricket tour in the summer and one of their executives was saying how they loved this annual cricket festival as it is the only time that anyone in Ireland gets the chance to play a timed form at of a game. Within all of their leagues, they only play 50 over games every week. Without the development of this timed form of the game at the lower levels, it will be very hard for Ireland to compete within the County Championship. It, I suspect, would be even harder for the regions to perform well in either the 2nd XI Championship or the Minor Counties league.

Hmm....then perhaps have the best Irish players playing for their 4 provinces in the 3-day Minor Counties games? If they do well there then they could go to the 2nd XI Championship in addition to starting their own domestic 3-day inter-provincial competition? It shouldn't be too hard. They don't need 3 consecutive days. They could do Saturday-Sunday and then the next Saturday. Or even a 4-day league with matches played over two weekends. And as a feeder, they could start a 2-day inter-county competition with matches played over consecutive Saturdays or over one full weekend.

Yes this is true. Or as there are only four regions, then they could play a few times and a lot more spread out. There is for sure no lack of talent in the country, if I remember correctly one bowler took five wickets in six balls... something to be proud of!

Something needs to be done soon....

As things stand, Ireland are doing well in the Intercontinental Cup. They've won it for the last three years, I think.

But what's being done to take them to the next level? Or will they be seen as a feeder system for county cricket, and eventually, England, as in the case of Ed Joyce?

mikesiva wrote:Something needs to be done soon....

As things stand, Ireland are doing well in the Intercontinental Cup. They've won it for the last three years, I think.

But what's being done to take them to the next level? Or will they be seen as a feeder system for county cricket, and eventually, England, as in the case of Ed Joyce?

Yes, it seems like it could become the English, Welsh and Irish Cricket Board...

mikesiva wrote:Something needs to be done soon....

As things stand, Ireland are doing well in the Intercontinental Cup. They've won it for the last three years, I think.

But what's being done to take them to the next level? Or will they be seen as a feeder system for county cricket, and eventually, England, as in the case of Ed Joyce?

I think this is now more of a case of "what is Ireland doing for themselves to get to the next level?" as opposed to what should be done for Ireland. Apart from Zimbabwe and Bangladesh and maybe Sri Lanka, I'm almost certain that the other cricketing countries had to develop themselves to become test countries. There certainly wasn't any Intercontinental Cup when South Africa, West Indies, India, New Zealand and Pakistan came into the fold. Before they became test teams, the only first-class cricket they were exposed to was by organizing tours (either by hosting or visiting) themselves or by the luck of having first-class teams tour their countries and hoping that enough of the matches (usually against non-national sides) would be ajudged "first-class". Ireland may have won the Intercontinental Cup three times in a row, but we have no idea how they would fare against even Bangladesh A in a five-day match. The associates are mostly playing their first-class cricket in isolation, which can't be good for determining if any are ready for the next level. Teams like Ireland and Scotland should at least be playing the occasional first-class match against some English county to get some kind of guage of where they are. The worst thing that could be done I think would be to have the associates and affiliates become dependent on the ICC for everything. I'm sure Ireland could organize it's own multi-day domestic competition. Sure times are different, but multi-day matches can occur as consecutive weekends or consecutive Saturdays or Sunday, eg. A four-day match occurring over two consecutive weekends. To organize that shouldn't take much - all that would be required would be for the best local teams to form a feeder system to say 4 Irish provincial teams which would then play matches over 2 weekends. All it would really mean is replacing some of the one-day matches that are surely played on weekends with matches going on for 2 weekends or 3 Saturdays (for a 3 day match). There's no way Ireland can sustain itself as a test team if the only players with first-class experience are the ones on the full Ireland squad or those who play for English counties - they would absolutely need their own domestic first-class or first-class-like competition.

But given that braveneutral's own observations point to only 50 over games being played in all of the Irish leagues, it seems no one has thought of converting some of those 50 over games into multi-day games or that there isn't enough interest.

Re. Ireland, I would much rather cricket was promoted more on an Ireland basis rather than being a bit part/add-on in a UK domestic league, as is the current set up. At present, we operate like a minor counties outfit and recruit overseas stars to make up the numbers. It's not a real Ireland team. And it's ridiculous in that Simmons is coach of the ODI side and coach of the FP side.

I'd like to pull out of the FP altogether and do something about the infrastructure. We have a club set up and an Ireland set up which plays internationals and one day matches. There needs to be something in between, and I'd like to see a provincial structure put in place whereby club players can be selected to represent their provinces. Realistically, this will only be Ulster, Leinster and a weak Munster side. Connacht can field a side but they will be making up the numbers. I don't expect this to reap instantaneous rewards but it's a model to work towards, eg you play for you school, you join a club, you get picked for your province, you represent Ireland.

Don't know enough about Scottish set-up to comment though.

cabinboy wrote:Re. Ireland, I would much rather cricket was promoted more on an Ireland basis rather than being a bit part/add-on in a UK domestic league, as is the current set up. At present, we operate like a minor counties outfit and recruit overseas stars to make up the numbers. It's not a real Ireland team. And it's ridiculous in that Simmons is coach of the ODI side and coach of the FP side.

I'd like to pull out of the FP altogether and do something about the infrastructure. We have a club set up and an Ireland set up which plays internationals and one day matches. There needs to be something in between, and I'd like to see a provincial structure put in place whereby club players can be selected to represent their provinces. Realistically, this will only be Ulster, Leinster and a weak Munster side. Connacht can field a side but they will be making up the numbers. I don't expect this to reap instantaneous rewards but it's a model to work towards, eg you play for you school, you join a club, you get picked for your province, you represent Ireland.

Don't know enough about Scottish set-up to comment though.

Well I see we are in agreement on some things. I don't have a particular problem with Ireland being part of the English domestic set-up. Namibia's part of South Africa's domestic set-up and it was only Namibia and Ireland that ever really seemed to have a chance at winning the intercontinental cup so participation in domestic tournaments probably helps a little.

I like your model for progression to the Irish team, but why not throw in another level? The Irish counties. One could play for your school, join a club and then get picked for your (Irish) county side to play in 2-day matches (or 3-day matches) against other county sides within a given province and then get picked for your province to play in 3-day matches (or even 4-day matches) against the other provincial sides. Afterwards, the best of the lot get picked for Ireland.

By the way cabinboy, does Ireland have any domestic multi-day cricket?

I spoke to the head of junior cricket in Ireland, and he said the public schools festival was the only non limited-overs cricket in the country. One game a year. Involving Leinster U19s...

braveneutral wrote:I spoke to the head of junior cricket in Ireland, and he said the public schools festival was the only non limited-overs cricket in the country. One game a year. Involving Leinster U19s...

Are you sure that's not just for junior cricket?

Seems odd they can have non limited-overs cricket for school children but not for grown-ups.

Yeh I am sure. This is because their adult set up will be the equivalent of county premier leagues most likely. However, whilst some counties have regulations involving timed games, Ireland prefers limited overs games. I believe it because their only international cricket is played in limited overs form (at the top level versus international teams, not the intercontinental cup against associate sides...)

But then how can Ireland hope to achieve test status without non limited-overs cricket as a domestic game? Sure they can become a test country without a domestic multi-day tournament....but then they might end up like South Africa (which I think played it's first test before starting its own domestic first-class matches) with thrashings for about 10 years to start off....and given how impatient a lot of pundits and fans are with Bangladesh and even NZ and WI, that would not be the way Ireland or Kenya would want to start off their test history.

Indeed it would not, but imho, Kenya will not be granted status for a long, long time due to KCA/CK fiasco... Would Ireland not most likely lose for ten years whether there was a competition in place or not?

braveneutral wrote:Indeed it would not, but imho, Kenya will not be granted status for a long, long time due to KCA/CK fiasco... Would Ireland not most likely lose for ten years whether there was a competition in place or not?

Not sure I understand the last question. What competition are you referring to?

Sorry CQ, I meant a domestic competition of non limited-overs style... should have been clearer!