Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

mikesiva wrote:Ponting has waded into the debate....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket ... 744423.stm

'"I'm very sympathetic to countries like Ireland that could keep losing their best players. It's something that I feel shouldn't happen," said Ponting.'

Works two ways, Trent Johnston and Jeremy Bray are born in Australia but have chosen to represent Ireland. If an English county player has an Irish parent/grandparent, they could easily play for Ireland. For Ireland (and Scotland for that matter) to prosper in cricket, they must have a professional first class cricket competition.

If Ponting wants to help Irelands cause for cricket, then play a 5 ODIs and a test match in the Emerald Isle rather than overkill the England-Aussie rivalry.

mikesiva wrote:Ponting has waded into the debate....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket ... 744423.stm

'"I'm very sympathetic to countries like Ireland that could keep losing their best players. It's something that I feel shouldn't happen," said Ponting.'

Bet he wouldnt be saying that if Tasmania was seperate from Australia. Have to remember that noone points a gun at the Irush players heads in all this - they choose to move over.

Having seen many associate sides improve in 2010 and with Ireland even applying for a position amongst the test playing elite(but failing admittedly), can any associate teams improve further this year? The likes of Holland, Scotland and Ireland have had membership allowing them to play odi's but apart from the associates shield (I think that's what it's called) they have no experience of anything resembling test cricket. The meteoric rise of the Afghan side as well as a new T20 competition being planned in the USA springs further hope for the associate sides but can any make an impact in 2011? What role can the full members of the ICC play in helping the growing cricket nations?

I think that the World Cup will be the real test to see where we are at in terms of developing the Associates. There was optimism 4 years ago but Ireland aside the Associates probably shouldn't have shown up. The story of Afghanistan has hopefully renewed interest in the lower tier nations, much like Kenya did back in 2003 (?), but more still needs to be done to provide more matches for these teams. The Intercontinental Cup appears to be of a high standard, much better than it was, as we've seen county level (Porterfield, Rankin) and Aussie state level (Cooper) compete regularly and struggle on occasion.

We of course have to be wary of 'player adoption' ala Morgan, Joyce, Nannes but the way to go is definitely to get these players involved with professional domestic sides. Alexei Kervezee made waves for Worcestershire last season, RTD is of course a firm favourite at Essex and Somerset have signed George Dockrell, the Irish spinner. Add to this of course the O'Brien brothers, Porterfield, Joyce, Rankin and Coetzer and I do think that great steps have been made since the last World Cup. I think that the next move should be to make it compulsory to play local Associate nations during tours. This would therefore mean that a tour to England should include one day matches against Ireland, Scotland and Holland. A tour to West Indies would mean a match against Bermuda and a match against Canada, a tour to South Africa would mean playing Zimbabwe, Kenya etc. Ok, facing the Kenyan bowling attack may not be the best preparation for facing Steyn and Morkel but the major test nations must make some sacrifices for the good of the game.

I really can't see Holland, Ireland and Scotland improving to any higher level, because the moment they produce any decent players, they will probably lose them to teams like England, Australia and South Africa. However, Afghanistan might just make it, if they keep it up....

but the major test nations must make some sacrifices for the good of the game.

The major test nations will do nothing of the kind - as it is the big three boards have ganged up to chuck the associates out of the 2015 WC. What they have done so far, and will continue to do in future is weaken the associate countries for their own individual aggrandisement. One, emasculate the associate teams even more by kidnapping their players. Two, marginalise them by excluding them from ICC events. Three, continue to pontificate about the need to globalise cricket.

A world cup where qualification is restricted to just ten teams? Did I hear you say World cup? The next step would be to repeat the proven process with the smaller (read poorer) test playing nations. The signs are in the air, with talk about a two-tier test schedule, a proposed test championship that excludes all but the affluent. Eventually we will end up with a World Cup in which only four countries are eligible to participate.

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Borges wrote:

but the major test nations must make some sacrifices for the good of the game.

The major test nations will do nothing of the kind - as it is the big three boards have ganged up to chuck the associates out of the 2015 WC. What they have done so far, and will continue to do in future is weaken the associate countries for their own individual aggrandisement. One, emasculate the associate teams even more by kidnapping their players. Two, marginalise them by excluding them from ICC events. Three, continue to pontificate about the need to globalise cricket.

A world cup where qualification is restricted to just ten teams? Did I hear you say World cup? The next step would be to repeat the proven process with the smaller (read poorer) test playing nations. The signs are in the air, with talk about a two-tier test schedule, a proposed test championship that excludes all but the affluent. Eventually we will end up with a World Cup in which only four countries are eligible to participate.

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

I fear you are correct Borges. Obviously my ideas are in an ideal world, where decisions are made for the most part with the game in mind. Sadly of course money talks, and the quest to find the arrangements that pull in the biggest sponsors, the biggest broadcasters and the most media attention will kill off those of a lesser standing.

The thing that the big boards seem to forget however is that even the likes of England, Australia and India started somewhere and if they continue to shut out the associate sides and steal their better players it will be to the detriment of cricket long term. However with Joyce returning to playing for Ireland after being dropped by the England selectors it may deter some players from changing to higher profile sides international sides for brief short term gain.

Ireland giving their players central contracts is a good move, but if associate nations want full test status then they must have a professional first class league.

Ireland and Scotland could get together and create a domestic league of their own

Highlands (Sco)
Midland Valley (Sco)
Southern Uplands (Sco)
Leinster (Ire)
Munster (Ire)
Ulster (Ire)
North West (Ire)

Initially play 6x four-day games, 6x one-day games and 6x Twenty20 games. If the league becomes a success, then look to increase the number of games.

I must admit that I'm pleasantly surprised at the progress Canada have made over the past year....

Last year, they toured the Caribbean, and they were thrashed by everybody, including the devleopment youth team, the High Performance Centre. But this year, they more than held their own in the domestic 20/20 competition, beating Hampshire, forcing Trinidad to go down to the last ball to beat them, and finishing ahead of the Leewards in the final standings.

I wonder how they'll do in the World Cup....

mikesiva wrote:I must admit that I'm pleasantly surprised at the progress Canada have made over the past year... I wonder how they'll do in the World Cup....

I reckon that the Canadians are good enough to win a couple of games - most likely at the expense of Kenya and possibly Zimbabwe. I couldn't see them turning over anybody else, although an upset is sure to happen at some point, with both Pakistan (who lost to Ireland in 2007) and New Zealand ripe for the picking!

Canada, Kenya, Ireland and the Netherlands are the teams in the World Cup....

I'm disappointed that Afghanistan didn't make it. Maybe in 2015....

Kenya have played well in past world cups, beating WI in 96 and making the semis in 2003, however they seem to have not built on that as it seems now that Ireland, Holland and Afghanistan now carry the flag more for the associate sides. Canada have been consistent but hamstrung themselves with controversy and in-fighting not helping they're cause. Bermuda also made an appearance a few years ago in the 07 world cup before falling on their laurels and taking steps backwards.

mikesiva wrote:Canada, Kenya, Ireland and the Netherlands are the teams in the World Cup....

I'm disappointed that Afghanistan didn't make it. Maybe in 2015....

Sorry mikesiva there is no chance of that happening, the ICC have decided that the 2015 Wc will be restricted to only 10 nations. Now remind me how many test playing nations are there?

at the time the, imho buffon, Haroon Lorgat stated that the ICC Champions trophy was the competition where the minnows would get to play the big boys.

The next Champs trophy is to be held supposedly in England in 2013, but afore mentioned buffon has now stated that he would like to see the 'World Test Chapionships' to be played by the top 4 ranked test playing nations take place at that time instead.

Oh the minnow are still (at the moment) allowed to try to qualify for the 20/20 wc, and sure I am that they would love to play a bit of hit an giggle cricket but how pray tell is that supposed to help them develop? 50 Over is the minimum to allow a batsman to learn to bat an innings and for a bowler to learn to bowl a spell.

The Idea that during tours the test playing nations should also play against the top ranked associates is already in place but very few tourists bother to do so.

Not only that but the ICC and the BCCI that controls it are only interested in $ signs which is why they are mooting the idea of an IPL type expansion into the USA. Not to develop the game although that MAY be an unintended consequence, but to make a lot of money for the promoters and franchies owners none of which finds it way back to 'grass roots' development.

Kenya were supposed to be helped towards achieving full membership status in the late 90's and early 00's but none of that happened, how many tourists to SA (England included) bothered to schedule a game or games against them? (Its a pity Steve Tikolo coiuldn't get a SA passport he would have been a shoe in for them at the time)

Why are Bermuda not asked to play in the WI one day or 1st class leagues?

Why when Ireland were playing in the English one day competitions were the counties allowed to refuse to release their players to them? When will Scotland be invited into the competition?

Zimbabwe are safe in their full member status only because they can be assured to vote whatever way the BCCI tells them to, the same with Bangladesh.

Afghanistan's good works in the qualification for the 2011 WC has assured them a place in the 3rd Div of the ICC Pepsi league which affords them more chances to progress but without a 'home' to play they are going to struggle to progress out side of the one day game.

It seems to me that the ICC want to play nothing more than lip service to the notion of expanding the game whilst ensuring that the nice cosy club at the top continues to cream off the profits for the benifits of the few. For example in the 2007 WC Pakistan and India both went home with prize (attendance) money of millions of $ each where as the Irish side which on it's progress through to and in the group stages beat 2 test playing nations and drew with a 3rd knocking Pakistan out in the process only recieved $500,00 prize money at the same time as the guys representing their country were selling their cars and taking out loans to pay to stay out for their extended stay?

I will shut up now but you may just guess this is a subject i feel just a little strongly about.

A jolly good read Jonah58