Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby ddb » Tue May 29, 2012 12:16 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:As for captaincy, as both myself and D/L have pointed out on various threads, the majority of it at the professional level is done before players even take the field, the fine tweaks on the field are done in conjunction between the bowler and the captain, it's fairly tough to be a poor on field captain in the modern game beyond man management skills, but that doesn't mean you can't be a good one though.


Hasn't Clarke sort of proved that false so far?
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby greyblazer » Tue May 29, 2012 12:17 pm

With the team Aus had any decent captain would have become the most successful captain.When he didn't have a great team Punter struggled like at Nagpur.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:18 pm

sportbloggeradi wrote:You can give as many such links as you want, but the fact is he is most successful captain. The positives of his captaincy tactics overcomes the negatives outcomes of his tactics. Not every trick done by captain will work as opponents are also equally professional. Overall Ponting has enjoyed more good days than bad ones as captain.

And how many times does it have to be repeated that you can enjoy good days because of the quality of your side despite not being a great captain?
Do you rate a captain only by his Win/Loss record?
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby greyblazer » Tue May 29, 2012 12:22 pm

Among the captains I have seen I would rate Fleming, Crowe, Taylor, Ranatunga, Akram, Clarke, Nass and a few more ahead of Punter.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:22 pm

There is a difference between a good captain and a successful captain. I'd prefer to judge a captain by his man management and tactical skills rather than his win/loss record.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:23 pm

greyblazer wrote:Among the captains I have seen I would rate Fleming, Crowe, Taylor, Ranatunga, Akram, Clarke, Nass and a few more ahead of Punter.

Steve Waugh, Vaughan,Mahela,to name but a few?
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby greyblazer » Tue May 29, 2012 12:24 pm

As per the W/L record Flower would be one of the worst captains but I tell you he was good.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby greyblazer » Tue May 29, 2012 12:26 pm

shankybiggestengfan wrote:
greyblazer wrote:Among the captains I have seen I would rate Fleming, Crowe, Taylor, Ranatunga, Akram, Clarke, Nass and a few more ahead of Punter.

Steve Waugh, Vaughan,Mahela,to name but a few?


I said a few more. Mahela and maybe Vaughan too but I and another CMS poster Gordon don't rate Steve that much.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby meninblue » Tue May 29, 2012 12:26 pm

shankybiggestengfan wrote:
sportbloggeradi wrote:You can give as many such links as you want, but the fact is he is most successful captain. The positives of his captaincy tactics overcomes the negatives outcomes of his tactics. Not every trick done by captain will work as opponents are also equally professional. Overall Ponting has enjoyed more good days than bad ones as captain.

And how many times does it have to be repeated that you can enjoy good days because of the quality of your side despite not being a great captain?
Do you rate a captain only by his Win/Loss record?


I repeat a captain is as good as a team. At this level with every cricketer having played so many games, there is difference in captaincy only in terms of approach to the game. Otherwise most of the basic decision making pattern is similar. A captain is judged on win - loss ratio, field placements, judging the wicket, how well he analyzes the opponents, pressure tricks, talent identification, developing the vice captain so that he gets ready as future captain, knowing how to rotate spells, declarations etc. Pontings tactics were excellent from what i have watched.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:27 pm

greyblazer wrote:As per the W/L record Flower would be one of the worst captains but I tell you he was good.

Agreed. So was Fleming despite not having the greatest of W/L records.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby greyblazer » Tue May 29, 2012 12:28 pm

sportbloggeradi wrote:
shankybiggestengfan wrote:
sportbloggeradi wrote:You can give as many such links as you want, but the fact is he is most successful captain. The positives of his captaincy tactics overcomes the negatives outcomes of his tactics. Not every trick done by captain will work as opponents are also equally professional. Overall Ponting has enjoyed more good days than bad ones as captain.

And how many times does it have to be repeated that you can enjoy good days because of the quality of your side despite not being a great captain?
Do you rate a captain only by his Win/Loss record?


I repeat a captain is as good as a team. At this level with every cricketer having played so many games, there is difference in captaincy only in terms of approach to the game. Otherwise most of the basic decision making pattern is similar. A captain is judged on win - loss ratio, field placements, judging the wicket, how well he analyzes the opponents, pressure tricks, talent identification, developing the vice captain so that he gets ready as future captain, knowing how to rotate spells, declarations etc. Pontings tactics were excellent from what i have watched.


In that case we all must have watched someone else captaining OZ.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 pm

greyblazer wrote:
shankybiggestengfan wrote:
greyblazer wrote:Among the captains I have seen I would rate Fleming, Crowe, Taylor, Ranatunga, Akram, Clarke, Nass and a few more ahead of Punter.

Steve Waugh, Vaughan,Mahela,to name but a few?


I said a few more. Mahela and maybe Vaughan too but I and another CMS poster Gordon don't rate Steve that much.

What Steve did in the 99 WC is hard to ignore though. Leading from the front and lifting a team that seemed down and out to lift the WC crown.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:29 pm

greyblazer wrote:
sportbloggeradi wrote:
shankybiggestengfan wrote:
sportbloggeradi wrote:You can give as many such links as you want, but the fact is he is most successful captain. The positives of his captaincy tactics overcomes the negatives outcomes of his tactics. Not every trick done by captain will work as opponents are also equally professional. Overall Ponting has enjoyed more good days than bad ones as captain.

And how many times does it have to be repeated that you can enjoy good days because of the quality of your side despite not being a great captain?
Do you rate a captain only by his Win/Loss record?


I repeat a captain is as good as a team. At this level with every cricketer having played so many games, there is difference in captaincy only in terms of approach to the game. Otherwise most of the basic decision making pattern is similar. A captain is judged on win - loss ratio, field placements, judging the wicket, how well he analyzes the opponents, pressure tricks, talent identification, developing the vice captain so that he gets ready as future captain, knowing how to rotate spells, declarations etc. Pontings tactics were excellent from what i have watched.


In that case we all must have watched someone else captaining OZ.

:thumb
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby greyblazer » Tue May 29, 2012 12:32 pm

Steve led the team from front as he was a great batsman. My problem with him is that 7-2 field he used to set. Even when VVS was going great guns Steve had that 7-2 field all the time.
Last edited by greyblazer on Tue May 29, 2012 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

Postby shankycricket » Tue May 29, 2012 12:33 pm

I am too young to remember Steve's captaincy tactics in detail but I can tell you what- he was better than Punter.
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