Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

[GGAS]

I'm not sure it's fair to use W/L ratios when determining captains. That would make Punter the best ever! If you also consider that Gayle had a better team at his disposal I think it shows Sammy hasn't done badly at all. Losing in England is hardly a disgrace, but it's series' such as the one vs NZ that are important.

[greyblazer]

When Gayle was the captain he was opening the batting, Taylor was doing well on occasions, Sarwan was in the squad, Nash was doing reasonably well and they had few more decent players yet there were times like against SA in 2010, in OZ in 09/10 in the onedayers and t/20's, against England in 2009 the side just rolled over without even a semblance of fight.

[greyblazer]

I'm not sure it's fair to use W/L ratios when determining captains. That would make Punter the best ever! If you also consider that Gayle had a better team at his disposal I think it shows Sammy hasn't done badly at all. Losing in England is hardly a disgrace, but it's series' such as the one vs NZ that are important.

And Andy Flower the worst captain ever.

[meninblue]

I'm not sure it's fair to use W/L ratios when determining captains. That would make Punter the best ever! If you also consider that Gayle had a better team at his disposal I think it shows Sammy hasn't done badly at all. Losing in England is hardly a disgrace, but it's series' such as the one vs NZ that are important.

IMO Credit should be given where it is due. Ponting is the most successful captain, whether we like it or not. His wins are a testimony to his success and out numbers any other captains wins. It is not Pontings fault that along with good captaincy skills he had a good team as well. Sixteen test wins in a row , couple of world cups, other major test and ODI series are under his belt. I reckon if any captain is given those wins they would be more than happy.

[greyblazer]

Most would reckon that Punter wasn't a great captain.

[andy]

another test series defeat for sammy and the windies.

[OffStumpYorker]

IMO Credit should be given where it is due. Ponting is the most successful captain, whether we like it or not. His wins are a testimony to his success and out numbers any other captains wins. It is not Pontings fault that along with good captaincy skills he had a good team as well. Sixteen test wins in a row , couple of world cups, other major test and ODI series are under his belt. I reckon if any captain is given those wins they would be more than happy.

While punter has those stats you have to consider that most of those were gained under a team that basically ran its self on the field, Bowlers generally set thier own fields, I remember Warne going ballistic when Punter had the temerity to set a field for him. Once the greats had left the Aussie team you saw a marked change in punters stats,

Pre Feb-2007 (Side of Greats) : P 35, W 27, L 3, D 5
Post Feb-2007 (Next Gen) : P 42, W21, L 13, D 8

that about sums up punters Cricket career as captain which is a tale of 2 halfs, and shows that 77% Win to Played Ratio dropping to 46% after the retirement of the greats, the W/L ratio plumits from 9 to 1.6.

Noramally you would expect to see an adjustment but with a very good captain would it be that drastic? Its the same for Strauss who is likely to go down as one of the best England captains but is that because he has a team of good players behind him.

At the moment Strauss is on 24 wins from 46 games, and two wins away from Vaughan who had 26 in 51, does that make Strauss a better captian that Vauaghan? Or just more fortunate to have a better team.

[shankycricket]

I'm not sure it's fair to use W/L ratios when determining captains. That would make Punter the best ever! If you also consider that Gayle had a better team at his disposal I think it shows Sammy hasn't done badly at all. Losing in England is hardly a disgrace, but it's series' such as the one vs NZ that are important.

IMO Credit should be given where it is due. Ponting is the most successful captain, whether we like it or not. His wins are a testimony to his success and out numbers any other captains wins. It is not Pontings fault that along with good captaincy skills he had a good team as well. Sixteen test wins in a row , couple of world cups, other major test and ODI series are under his belt. I reckon if any captain is given those wins they would be more than happy.

But the thing is when he didnt have a great team, his captaincy looked non-existent. There is a clear correlation.

[Making_Splinters]

To be quite frank no one gave the Windies a realistic hope of winning this series, infact their ability to even compete with England was dressed up in many quarters such as CMJs article in the Times before the series and yet despite the impression of crushing wins they have actually pushed England in this series so far, their batting may be laughed at but they've posted two 300+ scores against one of the best attacks around in their own back yard.

One poor innings in the last test showed that they are far from the finished article but they've done very well here in England and a true test will be to see how they get on against the Kiwis at home later this year.

It's hardly fair to hold them over the brazier for a series which no one expected them to win to begin with.

[shankycricket]

I agree M_S but do you think a player should be picked in the side for his captaincy if not good enough?

[greyblazer]

Sammy got a century in the last test and he does a holding job as a bowler.

[Making_Splinters]

And how is the series result any reflection on Sammy's performance?

He's one of the few who can walk with their head's held high in this side at present.

[shankycricket]

Why is it repeatedly forgotten that Sammy is in the side as a part of a 4 man attack and is thus supposed to pick wickets? His runs are a bonus.

[shankycricket]

Sammy got a century in the last test and he does a holding job as a bowler.

I am not saying he doesnt do a job. The question is whether he is among the top 4 bowlers in Windies? I dont think so.

[greyblazer]

For a start I see Sammy doing a better job than Edwards and on flat wickets better than Shillingford as a bowler.