Sammy vs Gayle as WI captain

[Making_Splinters]

As for captaincy, as both myself and D/L have pointed out on various threads, the majority of it at the professional level is done before players even take the field, the fine tweaks on the field are done in conjunction between the bowler and the captain, it's fairly tough to be a poor on field captain in the modern game beyond man management skills, but that doesn't mean you can't be a good one though.

Hasn't Clarke sort of proved that false so far?

How so?

[shankycricket]

As for captaincy, as both myself and D/L have pointed out on various threads, the majority of it at the professional level is done before players even take the field, the fine tweaks on the field are done in conjunction between the bowler and the captain, it's fairly tough to be a poor on field captain in the modern game beyond man management skills, but that doesn't mean you can't be a good one though.

Hasn't Clarke sort of proved that false so far?

How so?

Australia have looked a different side since him taking over as captain, with his tactics which are far better than that of Punter.

[Making_Splinters]

That doesn't actually have anything to do with the point though does it Shanky.

[OffStumpYorker]

Sammy is one of those captains and players that is often overshadowed by other players, and from what I've seen hes doing a good job with the resources available to him,

Overall Sammys bowling figures are not bad with the ball and has an average of 32 world wide, with the average in the west indies being 29. In first class his average is 28. So as a 3rd seamer hes not a bad option.

[meninblue]

The presence of Gayle and Narine have taken the WI team performances much higher. Gayle has solved the weak openers combination problem whereas Narine is giving performances of a match winner bowler. WestIndies looks a better team now and the only thing that has caused it is the addition of two excellent cricketers, not that Sammy's captaincy has improved within a time span of one test match. It just proves that the captain is as good as a team.

[greyblazer]

It also tells you that WI aren't playing a top side. A good captain can make a difference but of course he should have a decent team to work with.

[Albondiga]

A captain cannot do the batting bowling wicket keeping & fielding for the players but he van make a differene. Captains like Fender Surridge Brearley Close and Illibgworth have procen that.

[Albondiga]

Apologies for the errors - no specs!!!!

[meninblue]

I think there is not much difference in captaincy skills of players who have played enough to reach international level. However, each captain will have different approaches depending on how they are bought up in their career and what resources they have in present. That is also done with lot of inputs during team meetings, preparatory camps etc. Unless you have disgraceful captains like Azhar, Hansie and Slaman, captains do have enough experience and will the basic decisions correctly, like the typical fielding positions. That too is dependent on inputs of the video analyst/support staff. Everyone does it now, as well as they explore different fielding positions for some batters. All the captains i have seen have taken more correct decisions than not. The oppositions are also professionals , so if they make the team look bad it does not means the losing team has a bad captain.

Motivation is what every captain plays a huge role in. The best motivator will get the best results from his resources. For that too they have a motivator / psychologist as some international teams do . So overall IMO the captaincy workload has been reduced and a captains record will now depend on the resources he has, more often than not.

[andy]

The presence of Gayle and Narine have taken the WI team performances much higher. Gayle has solved the weak openers combination problem whereas Narine is giving performances of a match winner bowler. WestIndies looks a better team now and the only thing that has caused it is the addition of two excellent cricketers, not that Sammy's captaincy has improved within a time span of one test match. It just proves that the captain is as good as a team.

Narine has been good when the ball spins....in england in tests and odi he looked pretty ordinary and there was no mystery at all.....on a spinning wicket he is very good, however on a normal wicket there is no mystery at all..

[meninblue]

The presence of Gayle and Narine have taken the WI team performances much higher. Gayle has solved the weak openers combination problem whereas Narine is giving performances of a match winner bowler. WestIndies looks a better team now and the only thing that has caused it is the addition of two excellent cricketers, not that Sammy's captaincy has improved within a time span of one test match. It just proves that the captain is as good as a team.

Narine has been good when the ball spins....in england in tests and odi he looked pretty ordinary and there was no mystery at all.....on a spinning wicket he is very good, however on a normal wicket there is no mystery at all..

Agreed that he did not enjoy the tour of England as much as his other exploits in recent times. The other advantage is that he has a nice bounce which i think can be attributed to high delivery release position. That will be handy on bouncy wickets in case he does not gets spin in countries like Australia and South Africa in particular.

[greyblazer]

Mark Waugh was superb in the 96 WC but I would say that Taylor's imaginative captaincy was also a major reason why the Ozzies made it to the final. It shows that a good captain can make a difference.

[greyblazer]

I wrote this sometime ago.

Captaincy though matters. I haven't seen Brearley but Mark Taylor won matches with his captaincy alone.

Unlike Steve Waugh, during Taylor's time he had to captain the side with bowlers like Dale, Wilson, Robertson, Cook and few other average bowlers around. McGrath wasn't at his peak and Dizzy was too injury prone and inconsistent.

Just a few examples are enough to rate him as a captain.

Against WI in the 96 WC.

Browne and Chanders started smashing the bowlers but Taylor bought Warne into the attack within the first five overs with close-in fielders around and didn't the pinch hitter Browne get flustered by this move? yes he did and lost his wicket in the very 1st over Warne bowled. I haven't seen too many modern day captains showing the courage of giving a spinner a chance to bowl in the first 15 overs.

WI were cruising to victory in that same match as they needed just 40 odd runs to win it but Taylor bought both long on and long off in and Chanders got out caught at mid-on.

In the final Taylor took the risk of introducing Bevan early into the attack. The Lankans were definitely surprised by that move and it almost paid off as Gurusinha hit it straight to maybe Stuart Law but he dropped a dolly. It was a match in which the Ozzies dropped lots of catches and lost. He used Bevan as a frontline spinner against the Saffers as they are weak against wrist spin in 97 and it worked.

[Making_Splinters]

You're talking about very select examples there Grey, the vast majority of what the Captain's role is on the field is pre planned these days.

[greyblazer]

A good captain can make a difference even these days. Clarke is a fine example as is Mahela. In recent times though MJ has taken some strange decisions.

A good example can be Clarke bringing Watson very early into the attack in SL as the wicket was staying low and Watson responding to it by taking wickets. It certainly looked more like an instinctive decision.