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Having seen Australia start to dominate India as England did in the summer one has to ask the question what next for India?

After the England tour we saw the BCCI come out and state that there was nothing wrong with the Indian set up and refuse to launch an investigation if they suffer another heavy Loss or even a white wash.

At the moment India dont seem to be able to buy a series win outside of the sub-continent against any of the other top 4 teams, and they have been struggling to win away against lesser teams. At home they are still a force to be reckoned however even that might start to slip over the next year as they have some big series in 2012/13 as they host England and Australia either side of the New year.

Its difficult to see India being anything more than mid-table Test team for the next 2-3 years, possibly longer.

Well I think the issue is, as ever their pitches and the management of their pace bowlers.

They have needed a production line of all time great batsman to compensate for this and the question is firstly how long those batsmen stay (and if they remain great) and secondly are there more all time great batsmen to come as I don't see the issue over their pace attack improving on any consistent level.

There have being 10+ fast bowling prospects in the last 10 years equal to any that other Countries have had, they just have not kicked on or performed consistantly.

HarryPotter wrote:Well I think the issue is, as ever their pitches and the management of their pace bowlers.

Thats not a problem at all if you consider the Aus series.
All the batsmen are proven performers outside the subcontinent - Sachin, Dravid, VVS, Sehwag, Gambhir and the current bowling lineup is one of the best we've ever had.

Batsmen are out of form, they need to start putting 400+ scores consistently, then we'll start winning.

We didnt bat well in England, we are batting even worse in Aus.
That is the main issue.

The SCG wicket is flat, nothing for the bowlers from session 2 onwards, and we threw away the advantage.

The thing is, the closer you get to 40, the slower your reflexes become, and even great batsmen then become exposed by quality bowling....

It happened to the great Viv Richards towards the end of his career, and I think it's also happening to the much-vaunted Indian batting lineup.

Dilbert wrote:

HarryPotter wrote:Well I think the issue is, as ever their pitches and the management of their pace bowlers.

Thats not a problem at all if you consider the Aus series.
All the batsmen are proven performers outside the subcontinent - Sachin, Dravid, VVS, Sehwag, Gambhir and the current bowling lineup is one of the best we've ever had.

Batsmen are out of form, they need to start putting 400+ scores consistently, then we'll start winning.

We didnt bat well in England, we are batting even worse in Aus.
That is the main issue.

The SCG wicket is flat, nothing for the bowlers from session 2 onwards, and we threw away the advantage.

The Aus series will be like all the others for India. Yet again a new bowler shows promise and in a year will have crashed and burned. India have unearthed more pace talent than most Countries, they never kick on.

And yes, their batting has being great, how long can it continue and are the batsmen there to replace them?

India has always prided itsslef on producing high quality test batsmen, SRT, Dravid and Laxman are the latest in a long line that dates back to the early days when you had the likes of the Pataudi's (Snr and Jr), K.S. Ranjitsinhji, Merchant, Hazari, Gaveskar, Viswanath, and Amarnath to name just a few.

I think Mike's hit the nail on the head with the regards to the batsmen, history has shown that batsmen start to decline between 35 and 41. Some manage to last a little longer but not many. I think Boycott said that once he lost the passion to get up in the morning and Bat he knew his days as a Batsman were numbered.

Bowling wise India have the ability to produce quick bowlers, the problem seems to be that the pitches are not helpful for them which I dont really understand, surely with a country as big as india (eg Regions near the Kasmir/Pakistan border, or on the SE coast) there are pitches and conditions that can aid this type of development, or is it a case of the groundsmen being told to produce wickets that enable games to go the full duration in order to maximise TV revenue.

This pitches thing isn't really the thing tbh, easy thing to say but ultimately not the reason Ishant hasn't kicked on and averages 2000 away from home. Eric Simons, I don't know what he's done because it's not as if Ishant isn't a hard worker. But again, this attack can take 20 wickets, ultimately isn't the root cause of this, I'd blame management and Dhoni's "captaincy" there more than the inexperienced bowlers. Batting...well...yeah.

Till Nov 2013, we're not leaving India. It's the best time to rebuild, start again. This isn't happening because of talent, they have it in bundles. The fight etc since the world cup is gone. 2 of the big 3 have to go after this. Gambhir too. Dhoni no but his captaincy has been awful. Sehwag you keep as he'll get his stuff together sooner rather than later. I'd keep Sachin too out of all 3 as he's the only that looked remotely interested today. Rohit, Rahane, Pujara - play them.

What Aus have done successfully, despite not actually dropping many players is put all the players places at question and reap the rewards from that.

ok - batting wise, if things don't turn around very quickly then Gambhir and VVS would both have to go. Rahane or Mukund to come in alongside Viru, and then 2 out of Rohit, Kohli and Pujara to play in the middle order.

bowling wise, in India Ojha likely to come in alongside Ashwin, and then Zak with either Umesh or Ishant.

tbh, I don't see huge changes

I know it's an old subject. but Sehwag... even during his fifty at Melbourne, be looked like getting out every over. When things aren't going well, he looks a weakness. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of pressure on places.

I think its time to look for a new Test captain.Dhoni's captaincy has been nothing short of woeful on the past 2 tours and even this is too polite.Dravid seems to have lost his reflexes but a player with his grit,technique and defense should do better even at an older age as compared to an instinctive player like Viv.He hasnt looked good in this series but I still feel that a player of his class will get runs in this series.But regardless of what happens in the rest of the series he should go after this tour,as should VVS.It pains me to say this as I am a fan of both but as ddb said India wont have a better oppurtunity to rebulid.However,I dont agree regarding Gambhir.I still believe he is a quality player and dropping 3 experienced players at the same time isnt a great idea.Gambhir has got the goods.He has scored runs in challenging conditions in South Africa and is just going through a bad patch that every cricketer goes thorugh.Its easy to write him off saying he hasnt scored a Test ton for 2 years but I feel for the bloke.Everytime he has looked like getting into some form he has got injured.I would persevere with him.Its not as if India have any outstanding replacement.Rahane isnt an opener and he should replace Dravid at 3.The next best opener India probably have at the moment is Mukund and from what I saw of him in England I would say that even an out of form Gambhir is better.I would also persevere with young Virat Kohli.He hasnt done well at Test level as yet but unlike the midwicket slogger Raina this guy seems an organised batsman.I am not getting carried away by his ODI record but the reason why I rate Kohli highly is he can score runs all round the park and that he has got a good temperment and a very very good hand eye coordination.Rahane and Rohit could replace Dravid and VVS after this tour(regardless of what happens hereafter,I would expect players of the calibre of Dravid and VVS to score runs sooner rather than later in this series but after this series they should go).
The reason why Sehwag has struggled over the past year is simple.He has played in SA and England.Did anyone seriously expect him to do well in those conditions given his style of play?Make no mistake,he has got a pretty good defense and if he wants to play defensively he can but he doesnt seem to be willing to do the hard yards.He is not willing to grind and just wants to bash bowlers from ball one and that too staying still in his crease.Thats not going to happen in those conditions.If he is willing to grind then I think he can do alright in those conditions.All his great knocks have come when he has taken time to settle down in the first 15 overs before unleashing his shots.That epic 195 at Melbourne is a prime example.And there are many more.Whenever he goes too hard at the beginning he usually gets out for some brief cameo 30s and 40s.Thats been his problem over the past year.Someone needs to show him a few clips of his big knocks that he has played in the past.If Sehwag can just clam down a bit at the start of the innings then there is absolutely no reason why he cant get back to scoring big runs again.I dont think there should be any questions abut his place in the side.
Dhoni is going through a lean patch with the bat in the Test cricket but I am sure he will get his act as a Test batsman together sooner rather than later but as far as his captaincy his concerned,well Bowling looks fine to me.Ishant and Yadav are terrific young talents and with PK and Aaron back in the mix soon and with Zak likely to carry on for another couple of years the bowling is in safe hands.

When do India play test cricket next?

GG - Amir Sohail wrote:When do India play test cricket next?

Tomorrow

shankybiggestengfan wrote:

GG - Amir Sohail wrote:When do India play test cricket next?

Tomorrow

Hilarious.

I meant after the Aus tour.

GG - in the FTP theres a home series against Pakistan in Mar/Apr, though that might be switched, after that India are away to SL in Jul/Aug, then host NZ in Sep, and finally England in Nov/Dec, with a visit from australia in the early part of 2013.

OffStumpYorker wrote:GG - in the FTP theres a home series against Pakistan in Mar/Apr, though that might be switched, after that India are away to SL in Jul/Aug, then host NZ in Sep, and finally England in Nov/Dec, with a visit from australia in the early part of 2013.

Thanks osy, pretty sure the Pakistan series wont go ahead and I also read that the tests are being remove from the SL tour. That means an 8 month wait