Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

I reckon Woakes and Plunkett in particular have better SRs than Broad. And wickets count for a lot these days.

Wasn't Broad controversial because he didn't bowl at the end too?

Difficult to compare now. A&B are another era.

Don't want to go too far back as scores are so much bigger now, but going to 2014, Broad has about the same econ as Woakes, but a far worse SR. Plunkett has a slightly worse econ but a far better SR.

Anderson under cloudy skies in the World Cup would be a threat to the opposition. Folk might be obsessing with Archer for his pace, or bigging up the likes of Afghanistan and West Indies to cause some scares, but can their batsmen deliver under cloudy skies at Headingley or Old Trafford?

Question marks on the fitness of Wood, Woakes and Plunkett means there are places up for grabs if anyone stands out from the One Day Cup. World Cup Squads do not have to be finalised until 22nd May, by then the One Day Cup group and semi-finals will have been played. Regarding former players, Jordan might be reminiscing of a recall but Finn is worthy of another chance if injury free.

From the above list, Curran has been a fine death bowler in New Zealand and Willey's bowling performances have been decent right up until he was dropped.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Difficult to compare now. A&B are another era.

If we were to half the last decade in ODI cricket, and isolated it away from the minnows (No Afghanistan, Ireland, Zimbabwe and the rest, just the top 9 sides) you would find that in general, there has been a rise of 0.35 in SR between 2014-2019, compared to 2009-2014. Broad played in two of the heavier scoring years, but also there is proportionality between continued rising strike rates in his career from 2006-2009, which generally offset..... so using that, lets just add the 0.35 onto his career econ, and you are left with 5.6 an over. That levels him with Woakes and Wood roughly as the best in the current crop, but he averages 15 less than Wood, and 3 less than Woakes. So overall, you could crudely say he'd be better.

One thing thats important to note though, is that England have the most influence on the the rising Net Run rate from 2014. In fact, England own NRR average is more than double the average, jumping from 5.2 to dead on 6 (or 5.9999 recurring). When taking Englands massive increase out of the equation under Bayliss, the actual net run rate is 5.45 for all the others teams when batting. Factor that into the equation, its only a rise of 0.3. But then you can go further. Because actually, when you look at the stats, there is a very obvious trend in matches involving England; the first, explained above, is the massive hike in England's average score.... there is also the massive increase in scores England give away, far over the run rate increases of the other teams in general matches.

Taking each teams +/- SR vs England in the period of 14-19

South Africa score 0.25 more per over vs England on average
West Indies score 0.74 more per over vs England on average
New Zealand....0.22 more
Australia 0.07 more
India ..0.08 more
Sri Lanka...0.27 more
Pakistan...0.07 LESS
Bangladash...0.25 more

Average of 5.76 runs per over given away. 0.26 over the net average in World Cricket. Englands rising fortunes with the bat, and relative lack of fortunes with the ball have by far the biggest influence on global perception of rising SRs. When you factor out the increases of England matches, the Global rise in the period of 2014-19 on Net RR is 5.38.... a rise of only 0.23 (compared to 0.35 with England). Add that onto Broad's figures, and its under 5.5 an over, should he have bucked the general trend.

When you take the top run scoring series in the last 5 years, England are all over it at the top. The top scoring "series" can be found when combining Scotland and England's one of games..... the result is a draw in this fantasy series. England in India last time; England lost. England in Windies; draw. England v New Zealand in 2015; narrow win 3-2. England in South Africa; loss. England at home to South Africa; win. England v West Indies; crushing win at home. If you isolate only one team in this series, Scotland, India twice, South Africa, Windies.... all come out with better SRs in the biggest scoring series. This spells one thing..... England's bowling attack are being trampled on pretty much to the same tune as England's batting has increased. And these woeful bowling performances are pretty unique to England. No other team is doing it.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Plunkett has a slightly worse econ but a far better SR.

Plunkett is also a player like Broad who played outside of the last 5 years a lot. His econ record since 2015 is 5.92, with three years in 5 over 6.33. To put that in perspective, thats three years over the worst ever recorded career economy rate in ODI history for a player that has taken over 50 wickets. The comparison isnt even close for Plunkett. Stokes actually tops that list of worst Economy rates, so in tandem its a bit of a disaster. Willey is 11th on the list. Wood and Rashid make a top 20 (if we reduce it to Woods 40 wickets), as does Finn. Woakes career rate floats him near the top 25-30, but key for him, aside from this Windies series, he has improved significantly, and his career record is largely tainted from the 2011-15 period. In fact, between 2016-18 his record is superb, a really oasis in the desert, with low 5.1/5.3 range.

I reckon Woakes and Plunkett in particular have better SRs than Broad. And wickets count for a lot these days.

Is there a consistent link to SR and econ? BD have the worst SR and best econ out of all nations playing test cricket by 2015, the rest its very up and down. England SR not that bad, but their econ is noticeably bad. India strike less than South Africa, but have a better econ.

There seems a more sizeable difference between runs given away, than the difference between on average getting 7 as opposed to 8 wickets.

I'm going to go for The Castle argument that it's the vibe of it as well... Broad belongs to a failed England era and a retrograde step. And back to era when England couldn't take a wicket in the middle overs and so couldn't spike the guns before the last ten overs. They do that now. Woakes and Plunkett have among the best SRs among current bowlers. I'm not against moving on from some of the present bowlers and I can see a need for doing so. But not back to Broad who didn't do significantly better (and was worse in some ways) than the player we have now. I'd prefer to look to the next generation.

I can also hardly think of anyone I'd less want to come in during the last over with a handful of runs to win.

England have been creating pitches and outfields that clearly help batters too, with the last WC triggering a marked change in strategy. The gain for the batters has been paid for by the bowlers.

Anyway, haven't we already been back to Broad? He was recalled (in SA I think) exactly because England thought he might do better than these suffering bowlers, and he didn't make any difference.

England players availability early seasong
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47525005

Arthur Crabtree wrote:England have been creating pitches and outfields that clearly help batters too, with the last WC triggering a marked change in strategy. The gain for the batters has been paid for by the bowlers.

Anyway, haven't we already been back to Broad? He was recalled (in SA I think) exactly because England thought he might do better than these suffering bowlers, and he didn't make any difference.

At the beginning of 2015 the ODI rankings were

6 Anderson
12 Tredwell
19 Finn
43 Jordan
47 Broad
48 Bresnan
60 Woakes
61 Bopara
95 Ali
97 Stokes

the good old days ...
Rashid was reintroduced in June 2015. Before that 5 ODIs in 2009 ave 63.66. Now in the WI his bowling average has gone under 30 and England's best bowler. 5th in the rankings.
Wonder why Tredwell was dropped, bowling average 27.76 econ 4.75

The rankings are obviously heavily biased to wickets over runs given away. Rashid has, in 18 matches hes bowled in since 2018 began, gone for over 6 runs an over in exactly half of them.... and to be honest, 7 of the 8 instances where he has, have been in excess of 7 runs an over, with two of his last three in excess of 8 runs per over...... Rashid seems to have become a strike bowling wicket taker, who either takes wickets and forces some respect, or gets carted around all over the place. There isnt really any middle ground in his recent performances.

Hes a big risk for England, because the last thing you want in a knockout situation is a bowler who every other game is giving the opposition 75 runs

sussexpob wrote:

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Plunkett has a slightly worse econ but a far better SR.

Plunkett is also a player like Broad who played outside of the last 5 years a lot. His econ record since 2015 is 5.92, with three years in 5 over 6.33. To put that in perspective, thats three years over the worst ever recorded career economy rate in ODI history for a player that has taken over 50 wickets. The comparison isnt even close for Plunkett. Stokes actually tops that list of worst Economy rates, so in tandem its a bit of a disaster. Willey is 11th on the list. Wood and Rashid make a top 20 (if we reduce it to Woods 40 wickets), as does Finn. Woakes career rate floats him near the top 25-30, but key for him, aside from this Windies series, he has improved significantly, and his career record is largely tainted from the 2011-15 period. In fact, between 2016-18 his record is superb, a really oasis in the desert, with low 5.1/5.3 range.

I reckon Woakes and Plunkett in particular have better SRs than Broad. And wickets count for a lot these days.

Is there a consistent link to SR and econ? BD have the worst SR and best econ out of all nations playing test cricket by 2015, the rest its very up and down. England SR not that bad, but their econ is noticeably bad. India strike less than South Africa, but have a better econ.

There seems a more sizeable difference between runs given away, than the difference between on average getting 7 as opposed to 8 wickets.

This is the sort of stuff I love.

Superb

Curious why Hales was scared to going to Bangladesh with England but is happy to go to Pakistan...

The heavy roller is back in 2019 and also the seam of the Dukes ball is to be flattened out. To help the batsmen who are playing the cc at the beginning and end of the season. The ECB carry on making one mistake after another.

Slipstream wrote:Curious why Hales was scared to going to Bangladesh with England but is happy to go to Pakistan...

a cynic might suggest that his place is more in question this time around