The future of County Cricket

county and domestic cricket around the world

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Aidan11 » Tue May 17, 2016 2:33 pm

Bloody hell! :shock:
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Aidan11 » Tue May 17, 2016 3:18 pm

This article is a year old but has some relevance


https://www.spearswms.com/the-ecbs-hoar ... ll-levels/
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue May 17, 2016 3:51 pm

Don't sporting bodies insure themselves against this sort of stuff?

I doubt anyone can stop cricket going on in the event of the death of the head of state.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Aidan11 » Tue May 17, 2016 4:24 pm

There's also WWIII to consider.
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby captaincolly » Tue May 17, 2016 4:25 pm

Aidan11 wrote:There's also WWIII to consider.

:lmao
captaincolly
 
Posts: 36270
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:47 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, England

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue May 17, 2016 4:56 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Don't sporting bodies insure themselves against this sort of stuff?

I doubt anyone can stop cricket going on in the event of the death of the head of state.


Not sure if they are insured considering if they are then BCCI would have been insured when WI pulled out.

Looked at it and it is pretty clear everything stops when the queen dies it will would affect 2 Test matches or a period of 12 days.


ECB and other teams Risk are always the same, don't piss off BCCI, Hope no games get called off because of terrorist or natural events.
ECB reserves are also at record levels of £73m - justified by fears that a Royal funeral could potentially cause heavy losses in a future summer - even though county debts caused primarily by ground expansion are more than twice that figure.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/con ... 15217.html

TBH it really sounds like ECB have responded to the counties claims of why the Reserves are high.
ECB are really clutching are straws to get a reason for the high reserve figure.

TBH if BCCI can write of WICB debt surely ECB got enough clout to persuade Sky and the other board effect to postpone the games to a later date.

it really sounds like this is ECB justification at the 70M reserve figure.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue May 17, 2016 6:35 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
TBH it really sounds like ECB have responded to the counties claims of why the Reserves are high.
ECB are really clutching are straws to get a reason for the high reserve figure.

TBH if BCCI can write of WICB debt surely ECB got enough clout to persuade Sky and the other board effect to postpone the games to a later date.

it really sounds like this is ECB justification at the 70M reserve figure.


Hardly clutching at straws. For example, the Pakistan national team are hardly a stable cricket entity (they threatened to pull out of this years World T20). What happens if the England v Pakistan series is cut short because members of the Pakistan team are found cheating? Those £70 Million reserves will be useful to compensate broadcasting, sponsorship, hosting and match ticket obligations.

Another scenario, is what happens if the TV Broadcasters decide to pull the plug on it's Broadcasting partnership and it's replacement TV rights are a fraction of their previous value? This has happened in football with the collapse of ITV Digital and Setanta. Those reserves will come in handy to plug any financial shortfall and protect the professional side of English Cricket.
"Stats are there to be broken" Dominic Cork
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory" Jason Gillespie
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed" Geoffrey Boycott


2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru | 2018 County Championship D2 FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 17832
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: North Cheshire
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue May 17, 2016 6:39 pm

They don't need 70M though considering 30-40M is enough to cover for a rainy day.
For one ECB are insured if the broadcasting partnership fails and if anything they already got the money for this broadcast cycle so won't actually lose any money on it, the only issue would be finding a new tv partner but then again they do have BT sports so shouldn't be too difficult to find a tv partner.

Also the fact is WICB pullout of the india tour cost BCCI 34M pounds was 50M US dollars.
So you would think the value for an england home tour figure to be lower considering TV rights deals, Sponsorships, everything is lower than what an India series is worth.

So essentially a cancellation of a tour would be worth around what 20-30M pounds.
So why do ECB have 40-50M pound extra in the reserves at a time where all the counties are struggling financially.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue May 17, 2016 10:16 pm

Not all the counties are struggling, if anything county finances can be a bit difficult to unpick. Take us for example, we have a large debt on the books due to completely redeveloping the ground but we made a just under £800,000 profit last year. It would be superficial to say because we're in £13,000,000 of debt that we are struggling, but actually, there is no danger of us not making our payments in the future on it unless something truly bizarre happens.

Counties that are truly struggling tend to stem from historic mismanagement and biting off far more than they can chew. Yes some of that is down to the ECBs slightly exaggerated promotion of the profits netted from international cricket, but just handing Counties a load of money wouldn't solve the bigger issues that are underlying what is going on.

The ECB may have a large reserve, but if they handed that out as life-rafts then it would vanish pretty damn quick and the Counties would be back in the same position in a few years.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue May 17, 2016 11:39 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:They don't need 70M though considering 30-40M is enough to cover for a rainy day.
For one ECB are insured if the broadcasting partnership fails and if anything they already got the money for this broadcast cycle so won't actually lose any money on it, the only issue would be finding a new tv partner but then again they do have BT sports so shouldn't be too difficult to find a tv partner.

Also the fact is WICB pullout of the india tour cost BCCI 34M pounds was 50M US dollars.
So you would think the value for an england home tour figure to be lower considering TV rights deals, Sponsorships, everything is lower than what an India series is worth.

So essentially a cancellation of a tour would be worth around what 20-30M pounds.

So why do ECB have 40-50M pound extra in the reserves at a time where all the counties are struggling financially.


I beg to differ

BT are a relatively new player to broadcasting sports events and are bidding aggressively for rights. Their acid test is about to come as subscriptions begin to increase in price. Say come Summer 2019 the ECB sign a new four year broadcasting deal with BT (worth double than the current £70 Million per year), but the deal collapses after two years due to BT unable to fulfil their financial obligations, that leaves a substantial black hole in ECBs balance sheet. Even if the ECB manage to secure a replacement deal, it would be below market value and the £70+ Million reserves built up would be handily used to cover spending plans from the previous TV rights.

Numerous Football League and Scottish Premier League clubs had to restructure when they lost their lucrative TV rights. Given that all counties are heavily reliant on ECB payments (largely generated through TV money), the last thing the ECB want to see is counties going bust in the event of uncertainty.
"Stats are there to be broken" Dominic Cork
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory" Jason Gillespie
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed" Geoffrey Boycott


2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru | 2018 County Championship D2 FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 17832
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: North Cheshire
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby westoelad » Wed May 18, 2016 10:54 am

Making_Splinters wrote:Not all the counties are struggling, if anything county finances can be a bit difficult to unpick. Take us for example, we have a large debt on the books due to completely redeveloping the ground but we made a just under £800,000 profit last year. It would be superficial to say because we're in £13,000,000 of debt that we are struggling, but actually, there is no danger of us not making our payments in the future on it unless something truly bizarre happens.

Counties that are truly struggling tend to stem from historic mismanagement and biting off far more than they can chew. Yes some of that is down to the ECBs slightly exaggerated promotion of the profits netted from international cricket, but just handing Counties a load of money wouldn't solve the bigger issues that are underlying what is going on.

The ECB may have a large reserve, but if they handed that out as life-rafts then it would vanish pretty damn quick and the Counties would be back in the same position in a few years.

M/S. Do Lancs still generate a lot of winter income from corporate hospitality overflow
from Man Utd?
westoelad
 
Posts: 7620
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:26 pm

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed May 18, 2016 1:32 pm

westoelad wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:Not all the counties are struggling, if anything county finances can be a bit difficult to unpick. Take us for example, we have a large debt on the books due to completely redeveloping the ground but we made a just under £800,000 profit last year. It would be superficial to say because we're in £13,000,000 of debt that we are struggling, but actually, there is no danger of us not making our payments in the future on it unless something truly bizarre happens.

Counties that are truly struggling tend to stem from historic mismanagement and biting off far more than they can chew. Yes some of that is down to the ECBs slightly exaggerated promotion of the profits netted from international cricket, but just handing Counties a load of money wouldn't solve the bigger issues that are underlying what is going on.

The ECB may have a large reserve, but if they handed that out as life-rafts then it would vanish pretty damn quick and the Counties would be back in the same position in a few years.

M/S. Do Lancs still generate a lot of winter income from corporate hospitality overflow
from Man Utd?


We do, but, I'm not sure how much it is. Our revenue will be slightly down this season as the Lodge is shutting but the new hotel will not be open until next year.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 18, 2016 2:24 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:Not all the counties are struggling, if anything county finances can be a bit difficult to unpick. Take us for example, we have a large debt on the books due to completely redeveloping the ground but we made a just under £800,000 profit last year. It would be superficial to say because we're in £13,000,000 of debt that we are struggling, but actually, there is no danger of us not making our payments in the future on it unless something truly bizarre happens.

Counties that are truly struggling tend to stem from historic mismanagement and biting off far more than they can chew. Yes some of that is down to the ECBs slightly exaggerated promotion of the profits netted from international cricket, but just handing Counties a load of money wouldn't solve the bigger issues that are underlying what is going on


The last year Old Trafford didnt host international cricket, they made a crippling loss of 4 million (2012). They made a similar profit after a summer with an ODI and Test (2013) , having 150,000 odd tickets sold over 6 days. After the ODI's limited to one a year since, they returned modest profits. It would appear that Lancs need international cricket to turn a modest profit, and at least a 5 day test with good sales to make a worthwhile one.

This is where I take offence at the "historic mismanagement argument" because in short, Lancs did exactly the same so no one club can climb on the high horses here. Teams that were in bad finances took risks to make profit and attract cricket that brought money in, and lots of teams did it. Those that didnt are also in bad positions. Those that were lucky and got a greater slice of the pie have possibly very similar models to those that have failed. Take Hampshire, who also ploughed money into a ground to get test cricket.... not sure I see the difference between what they have done and Lancs?

As a county supporter from a non test venue, its pretty galling to see what financial advantages it gives people. Hove gets good ticket sales for T20, but lowering club membership levels for the county championship. A city based franchise taking the only profitability away would no doubt lead to death.

I think sometimes criticisms of counties is a lot like criticising the agricultural techniques of farmers in the middle of a drought. There is no money to mismanage.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 18, 2016 2:33 pm

In fact, how do the ECB expect to generate profits for counties by taking away T20 from them? I know the Northants Chairman was talking at the start of the season saying they had 37,000 more ticket sales pre-season for T20 then this time the year before. He seemed to indicate the payment from the ECB to accept losing the T20 game to a city franchise would have to be very large, unrealistically large, for it to actually become agreeable.

The ECB are compromising the counties T20 receipts..... they have changed the 40,45 or 50 overs game so much no one really knows that the hell is going on..... and the test team swallows up the best players for 90% of the county championship. Put simply, how do we expect our counties to sell their product without a full hand?

I am not sure Premier League games would be fantastically attended should all international squad players be removed from week 3 to 37 of the season. Without a die hard commitment to a team, why would you go?

Take Sussex. If I choose to go to see them at the end of this season, chances are Wright might be in OD squad, Joyce will be in Dublin, Jordan will be resting in preparation for resting on another tour..... wheres the incentive for me to go to see them if they are missing all the players I would pay to see?
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: The future of County Cricket

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 18, 2016 2:35 pm

It always baffles me too how Sky buy the rights for a competition that they dont exercise. The ECB should be giving away county cricket to public tv just to get it in the public eye. Give people an option to watch it and get into it, its not like Sky are showing more than 1 or 2 games a year!!

Who gives a sh*t about tennis until its on free to air tv?
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

PreviousNext

Return to Domestic Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: keverne and 31 guests