2016 Hampshire Thread

county and domestic cricket around the world

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:15 pm

Yes more the fact that that for continuity a club needs to stick with a coach long term. Not sure that outside of Durham and Kent Hants will be particularly disliked. Even there the vitriol will be reserved for Bransgrove, the goings on are outside the remit of players and supporters. That's the sad thing about the whole murky affair. It would have been a nice gesture though if Hants members had signed the petition to have the extra 48 pts deduction rescinded.
westoelad
 
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:26 pm

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:15 pm

westoelad wrote:It would have been a nice gesture though if Hants members had signed the petition to have the extra 48 pts deduction rescinded.


Didn't your board agree to that as part of the bail out?
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18329
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:56 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:
westoelad wrote:It would have been a nice gesture though if Hants members had signed the petition to have the extra 48 pts deduction rescinded.


Didn't your board agree to that as part of the bail out?

That's never been made clear. The time scale suggests that the financial terms of a bail out were agreed with the ECB determining the exact sanctions after Durham left the meeting. Durham understandably would have presumed that the sanction imposed would be within the existing rulebook's framework of sanctions i.e. maximum penalty being a 50pt penalty deduction.Despite repeated media requests ECB have refused to reveal which rules they were acting under to determine the actual sanctions imposed. A petition has been set up on chance. org. requesting that the further 48pts be rescinded.
I thought perhaps Hants supporters, as beneficiaries of these sanctions,would look sympathetically on Durham's plight.
westoelad
 
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:26 pm

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:59 am

westoelad wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:
westoelad wrote:It would have been a nice gesture though if Hants members had signed the petition to have the extra 48 pts deduction rescinded.


Didn't your board agree to that as part of the bail out?

That's never been made clear. The time scale suggests that the financial terms of a bail out were agreed with the ECB determining the exact sanctions after Durham left the meeting. Durham understandably would have presumed that the sanction imposed would be within the existing rulebook's framework of sanctions i.e. maximum penalty being a 50pt penalty deduction.Despite repeated media requests ECB have refused to reveal which rules they were acting under to determine the actual sanctions imposed. A petition has been set up on chance. org. requesting that the further 48pts be rescinded.
I thought perhaps Hants supporters, as beneficiaries of these sanctions,would look sympathetically on Durham's plight.

The bail out was a take or leave it option .I understand ,on good authority,that the Durham Board reps went to a meeting with ECB in London with the intention of 'negotiating' a deal .When they were presented with the ECB position they initially said no deal but very quickly retracted that stance when they realised that ECB were not going to budge i.e. their hand was forced to take the ECB offer points deductions and all. Clearly the ECB held all the aces and Durham's team had nothing of strength to counter it, other than to go bust.
In effect, the rather arbitrary unfair punitive points deduction for the 2017 season is the ECB message to all the other counties that they are not to be treated as the fairy godmother in future.It also appears to that it was not catered for in the regs but Durham had no choice.
User avatar
southwood
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:27 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:21 pm

Thanks for that clarification SW. It's this "fairy godmother", " lender of last resort" posture that ECB propagate that riles me. It's not the ECBs money,it's the counties money- they supply the players for England and that's almost exclusively the source of revenue. As for that petition if cricket followers believe Durham were harshly treated then they can sign it, if not they won't.
westoelad
 
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:26 pm

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Reports that Michael Carberry will be training again soon.

Good news. Best wishes to him.

There were reports that he was struggling to motivate himself after his experience with England, so there is more in play than his illness. But hopefully this news means he has recovered from his operation, the cancer is no longer a threat, and he at least has the option of continuing his career.

And a big thanks to the medical staff who made this possible.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 53659
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:18 pm

westoelad wrote:Thanks for that clarification SW. It's this "fairy godmother", " lender of last resort" posture that ECB propagate that riles me. It's not the ECBs money,it's the counties money- they supply the players for England and that's almost exclusively the source of revenue. As for that petition if cricket followers believe Durham were harshly treated then they can sign it, if not they won't.


Me too.
The early withdrawal of Investec as the Test Series sponsor is interesting. Investec were reported as very happy with the deal when it first started but lowering of interest in Test cricket in UK,the ECB handling of the Test allocation and the possible emergence of franchise T20 have combined to refocus Investec's marketing in relation to cricket.
Not really a Hampshire issue but just a few thoughts on the negative effect of ECB management.
User avatar
southwood
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:27 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:19 am

I have every sympathy with Durham fans, as with just about every sporting collapse its the innocent fans who suffer the most. I experienced it myself with Southampton in 2007-2008.

In the case of Durham, I don't have a clue of what has happened. I know you got fined for breaching the wage barrier, how did that happen? you haven't had a marquee signing in a while (if I remember Kumar was really cheap as we wanted to adapt to English conditions ahead of the test series) Presumably your core players Colly, Onions, Rushworth, Rocky, Borthwick and Stokes are rinsing the club

IF this is the case and it is self inflicted then I think the points deduction is fine, it sets a terrible precedent if sides rack up massive debt without major repercussions.Did Hampshire benefit from Durhams problems? yes, but I wish we hadn't, we were the 2nd worst side in the league and deserved to go down.
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18329
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:09 am

SaintPowelly wrote:I have every sympathy with Durham fans, as with just about every sporting collapse its the innocent fans who suffer the most. I experienced it myself with Southampton in 2007-2008.

In the case of Durham, I don't have a clue of what has happened. I know you got fined for breaching the wage barrier, how did that happen? you haven't had a marquee signing in a while (if I remember Kumar was really cheap as we wanted to adapt to English conditions ahead of the test series) Presumably your core players Colly, Onions, Rushworth, Rocky, Borthwick and Stokes are rinsing the club

IF this is the case and it is self inflicted then I think the points deduction is fine, it sets a terrible precedent if sides rack up massive debt without major repercussions.Did Hampshire benefit from Durhams problems? yes, but I wish we hadn't, we were the 2nd worst side in the league and deserved to go down.



I cannot find a definitive explanation of the salary Cap breach but the extract below describes how it happened. It was self declared at the time it was discovered .There were strong suggestions that other counties were also breaching but not declaring or being found out by E.C.B. as they, reportedly, did not routinely monitor this area or possibly turned a blind eye because it was the richer counties that were transgressing.

"Despite this discrimination there will be those, many within the ECB, who feel that counties must live more within their means. Citing Durham’s 2012 breach of the £1.8m salary cap, a playing bill they could ill-afford and which saw them fined, they feel the club has, on occasion, been reckless in their spending.

Harker counters this by claiming that Durham had several England players, who had been on central contracts with the ECB, return to the club that season, thereby unexpectedly adding to the wage bill. He also points out that such profligacy has not gone unchecked and in 2014 Durham’s wage bill, net of national insurance and pensions, was £856,500, which made them the lowest in the First Division and 13th of 18 overall." from an article in the Cricket Paper April 29th 2016.

This was at the time when Onions was in and out of the England set up and managing his salary was tied up with ECB payments , Harmison was at the end of his 4 year contract after losing his central contract,Blackwell cost a lot and they had Benkenstein ,Di Venuto on the books still.

I do not think the players you named above were being payed too mush as the salary bill during their time has been one of the lowest in of all the Counties ,as pointed out in the extract.

Partially self inflicted but also caused by an ambitious business plan predicated on the requirement to compete for Tests and develop and maintain a ground that met those needs. The ambitious of nearly all counties who have been expansionist in ground improvements (like Hampshire, Warwickshire, Glamorgan and Yorkshire), have run into similar difficulties. Also no 'sugar daddy' to inject much needed funds to underpin the costs.
User avatar
southwood
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:27 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:22 pm

That final paragraph is a neat summary of Durham's financial plight. Ambitious plans undoubtedly but based at the time on a sound financial model but then OneNorthEast was abolished, Northern Rock collapsed and benefactors,the reclusive Indian brother withdrew their largesse with Durham already committed to ground development. Player's wage bill is only 18% of total turnover so it's totally misleading to claim that wages were the cause of the crisis. Things came to a head in the Summer with the sudden and unexpected recall of £1 million loan from Barclay and poor income from the Sri Lanka test.
It's up to individuals to decide whether the sanctions imposed were too severe but what should be of greater concern is the manner in which they were decided. ECB repeatedly refuse to divulge which rules they acted upon to decide the sanctions,suggesting that they weren't adhering to any rule book. 2ndly, should officials who counties stage test matches be themselves be deciding if rival counties should compete to host such matches? Could such individuals be seen to be truly independent in such decision-making
westoelad
 
Posts: 5187
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:26 pm

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:01 pm

westoelad wrote:Things came to a head in the Summer with the sudden and unexpected recall of £1 million loan from Barclay and poor income from the Sri Lanka test.

It's up to individuals to decide whether the sanctions imposed were too severe but what should be of greater concern is the manner in which they were decided. ECB repeatedly refuse to divulge which rules they acted upon to decide the sanctions,suggesting that they weren't adhering to any rule book. 2ndly, should officials who counties stage test matches be themselves be deciding if rival counties should compete to host such matches? Could such individuals be seen to be truly independent in such decision-making


The straw that broke the camel's back, the thin line between success and failure or the rise and fall of ...... It also read as a,fiction like, plot of a sting generated by business rivals or a jealous opponent taking advantage of opportunity to bring ruin on a successful formula. But who is the villain or was it a conspiracy? Who will be next? Life has a habit of repeating itself. :hide :!: :panic
User avatar
southwood
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:27 am
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby Hampshire » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Cricinfo have reported that we tried to sign McLaren as a kolpak last season but the ECB barred it due to McLaren changing from a kolpak to an overseas in the past.
Hampshire
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:46 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire
England

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby st_brendy » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:50 pm

Hampshire wrote:Cricinfo have reported that we tried to sign McLaren as a kolpak last season but the ECB barred it due to McLaren changing from a kolpak to an overseas in the past.


Yeah the club was expecting to have McLaren as a kolpak last season, with a batter coming in as our overseas player (although aside from potentially Watson in limited overs cricket, I never actually heard any names). It was never our initial intention to have him as our overseas player. But ultimately that's where we ended up.
2012 F1 prediction guru
2011 F1 prediction guru
2014 Prem final placings prediction guru

Thanks for everything Pothas. You'll be missed. My nickname for you was apt and I will never forget it. For the last time, arise Sir Nic.
User avatar
st_brendy
 
Posts: 10423
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:02 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire CCC (Dimitri Mascarenhas)
Southampton FC (Adam Lallana)
Roger Federer
Soft spot for Liverpool FC.

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby Hampshire » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:25 pm

Abbott's going to be entering the IPL auction it seems.
Hampshire
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:46 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire
England

Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby andy » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:28 pm

no suprise there, think he had said all along he wanted to play IPL.
2012 - ENG vs SA ODI series winner
2013 - US Open golf winner, WI vs PAK winner , ENG vs OZ ODI and T20 winner
2015- Open golf championship winner
2017 - OZ vs Pak odi'S, AUS vs NZ ODI, NZ vs SA Tests , WI vs PAK tests


Essex CCC county champions
andy
 
Posts: 15978
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Essex
Team(s) Supported: Essex CCC
West ham united
Sunrisers Hyderberad
England

PreviousNext

Return to Domestic Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest