2016 Hampshire Thread

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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby st_brendy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:51 pm

Naturally of course a lot of county fans will see us as enemy number one, for signing a couple of kolpaks to go alongside us somehow being in the wrong for still being in D1 this coming season, but being biased I really don't care. In the space of just three signings this winter (including George Bailey) we've suddenly got ourselves possibly the best squad I can remember during my time of following the club. And they key word there is squad. It goes beyond the first XI. Hell, just picking a first XI is hard enough. And that is without yet signing a second t20 overseas player (who will hopefully either be an opener, or an allrounder - our t20 team could still do with both, subject to Carberry's future).

If the best happens, and Carberry recovers to return, the teams could be something like:

CC

1 & 2: Adams/Caberry/Smith/Alsop filling the top two spots, with two left out.
3 - 6: Ervine/Bailey/Vince/Dawson/Rossouw filling the next four spots (in whatever order), with one left out.
7: McManus (Christ, just think what a batting line-up we would have if Wheater was still here)
8: Berg
9: Abbott
10: Fidel
11. Topley/Wheal (Topley may not be fit, and even if he is, his workload will almost be managed in favour of limited overs cricket)

That's one top bowler short of being title contenders in my view. But certainly sufficient to avoid a bottom two finish, even if a smaller division now.

There's three batsmen there for cover, in addition to Topley or Wheal, plus Crane and the kids (I think realistically we can't now think of Wood as a four-day player, simply due to the injuries he picks up).

One-day

Carberry (if he doesn't recover, then probably Berg or Smith, with everyone moving up one - otherwise we're looking at 10 overs from Slug, albeit an excellent other 40 overs)
Vince
Alsop
Bailey
Ervine
Rossouw
Dawson
McManus
Wood
Abbott
Topley

t20

Carberry
Vince
Bailey
Ervine
Rossouw
Dawson
Overseas All-Rounder (otherwise Berg or Smith - so that Slug is our 6th bowler, regardless)
McManus
Wood
Abbott
Topley
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:59 pm

Abbott is just what the doctor ordered.for you lot
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby andy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:42 pm

I hear Reece Topley now needs surgery on his shoulder...poor guy never has any luck
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:13 pm

st_brendy wrote:Naturally of course a lot of county fans will see us as enemy number one, for signing a couple of kolpaks to go alongside us somehow being in the wrong for still being in D1 this coming season, but being biased I really don't care. In the space of just three signings this winter (including George Bailey) we've suddenly got ourselves possibly the best squad I can remember during my time of following the club. And they key word there is squad. It goes beyond the first XI. Hell, just picking a first XI is hard enough. And that is without yet signing a second t20 overseas player (who will hopefully either be an opener, or an allrounder - our t20 team could still do with both, subject to Carberry's future).

If the best happens, and Carberry recovers to return, the teams could be something like:

CC

1 & 2: Adams/Caberry/Smith/Alsop filling the top two spots, with two left out.
3 - 6: Ervine/Bailey/Vince/Dawson/Rossouw filling the next four spots (in whatever order), with one left out.
7: McManus (Christ, just think what a batting line-up we would have if Wheater was still here)
8: Berg
9: Abbott
10: Fidel
11. Topley/Wheal (Topley may not be fit, and even if he is, his workload will almost be managed in favour of limited overs cricket)

That's one top bowler short of being title contenders in my view. But certainly sufficient to avoid a bottom two finish, even if a smaller division now.

There's three batsmen there for cover, in addition to Topley or Wheal, plus Crane and the kids (I think realistically we can't now think of Wood as a four-day player, simply due to the injuries he picks up).

One-day

Carberry (if he doesn't recover, then probably Berg or Smith, with everyone moving up one - otherwise we're looking at 10 overs from Slug, albeit an excellent other 40 overs)
Vince
Alsop
Bailey
Ervine
Rossouw
Dawson
McManus
Wood
Abbott
Topley

t20

Carberry
Vince
Bailey
Ervine
Rossouw
Dawson
Overseas All-Rounder (otherwise Berg or Smith - so that Slug is our 6th bowler, regardless)
McManus
Wood
Abbott
Topley

Where are the English qualified players in the Hants line up that have been developed within the County?
Sad when your Chairman campaigned for the relegation of the county that has consistently brought young players through their academy to England Test player level.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:00 pm

Interesting article on the contasting policies on the 2 counties to player recruitment.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cric ... MP=OTC-RSS
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:42 pm

westoelad wrote:Interesting article on the contasting policies on the 2 counties to player recruitment.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cric ... MP=OTC-RSS

Interesting article - barbed comment about Hampshire pinching the young fruit being grown elsewhere as well as hiring Kolpaks.
In think Hants only have 3 England qualified players in their prospective 1st team pool.
#they have enlisted 3 Kopaks, an Aussie with a UK passport and benefitted from Durham's financial woes by offering Asher Hart more than Durham could afford.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:16 pm

southwood wrote:
westoelad wrote:Interesting article on the contasting policies on the 2 counties to player recruitment.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cric ... MP=OTC-RSS

Interesting article - barbed comment about Hampshire pinching the young fruit being grown elsewhere as well as hiring Kolpaks.
In think Hants only have 3 England qualified players in their prospective 1st team pool.
#they have enlisted 3 Kopaks, an Aussie with a UK passport and benefitted from Durham's financial woes by offering Asher Hart more than Durham could afford.


Just to clarify the above comment - I was referring to England qualified under 34yrs.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:02 pm

southwood wrote:Where are the English qualified players in the Hants line up that have been developed within the County?
Sad when your Chairman campaigned for the relegation of the county that has consistently brought young players through their academy to England Test player level.


James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Alsop, Lewis McManus, Chris Wood, Mason Crane, Jimmy Adams (1 of our own)

Vince + Dawson made their England debuts this year, Alsop made his Lions debut this winter, Mason Crane has been highly tipped by most pundits, Wood unfortunately isn't fit enough to have a long run and fulfill his potential.

Not too shabby for me.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:40 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:
southwood wrote:Where are the English qualified players in the Hants line up that have been developed within the County?
Sad when your Chairman campaigned for the relegation of the county that has consistently brought young players through their academy to England Test player level.


James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Alsop, Lewis McManus, Chris Wood, Mason Crane, Jimmy Adams (1 of our own)

Vince + Dawson made their England debuts this year, Alsop made his Lions debut this winter, Mason Crane has been highly tipped by most pundits, Wood unfortunately isn't fit enough to have a long run and fulfill his potential.

Not too shabby for me.

Yes SP but how are these youngsters going to develop if theirplaces are going to be blocked by numerous imports from either abroad or other counties
Roussouw
Abbott
Bailey
Ervine
Berg
Edwards
Wheal
Smith
Carberry
Topley
Hart

What sort of message, for example, do the signings of Topley and Hart give to any aspiring young local bowlers?
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:14 pm

westoelad wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:
southwood wrote:Where are the English qualified players in the Hants line up that have been developed within the County?
Sad when your Chairman campaigned for the relegation of the county that has consistently brought young players through their academy to England Test player level.


James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Alsop, Lewis McManus, Chris Wood, Mason Crane, Jimmy Adams (1 of our own)

Vince + Dawson made their England debuts this year, Alsop made his Lions debut this winter, Mason Crane has been highly tipped by most pundits, Wood unfortunately isn't fit enough to have a long run and fulfill his potential.

Not too shabby for me.

Yes SP but how are these youngsters going to develop if theirplaces are going to be blocked by numerous imports from either abroad or other counties
Roussouw
Abbott
Bailey
Ervine
Berg
Edwards
Wheal
Smith
Carberry
Topley
Hart

What sort of message, for example, do the signings of Topley and Hart give to any aspiring young local bowlers?


Sorry, but I think that's clutching at straws, the best ways for players to develop is by having quality players around then, if you think that young bowlers at Hampshire won't benefit by having Abbott around or that young batsmen across the country won't benefit from having to face him then you are deluding yourself

Realistically Dawson and Vince will be in and out of England squads and Bailey/Rossouw will provide adequate cover for them.

How often do we read people say the County game is dying? Not enough people attending games etc. Finally international quality players are bought in, who might get people through the gates and it gets criticised?

Had Hants provided no English talent in years then you might have a point, but that's not the case and you know it.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:42 pm

I'm certainly not clutching at straws, don't understand the inference. Of course Abbott can be a benefit to youngsters, I never implied otherwise. Equally I'm fully aware that Vince and Dawson have represented England, whether they've proved they're England class, however would be the more relevant issue.
The issue is have Hants got the correct balance between youth development and imported experience? Certainly have no problem if Hants supporters believe they have.

Hart, incidentally, does look promising-has pace from a beautiful high action. Has had his fair share of injuries in common with most youngsters these days. Obviously still very raw.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby st_brendy » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:05 pm

Rob Key had it right in his recent article. First and foremost you want to develop your own, home grown players. But it they're simply not good enough, then you take a higher quality kolpak player over a poor local player any day. We've been OK (but not great) with producing batsmen and spinners over the past decade, but since Tremlett and Tommo in the early 2000s, the only fast/seam bowlers of any note at all to come through really have been Wood and Griffiths. And even they are way short of international level.

A stronger Hampshire side can only make the likes of Vince, Dawson, Alsop, McManus (who is nowhere near as good as the Essex-grown Wheater by the way, but we've gone with our own in McManus) and Crane want to perform better themselves. Local lad Chris Benham was probably the guy who lost out as a result of us signing Neil McKenzie. A shame for Chris, as he played some great innings. But they were few and far between. The impact that Macca had on us - in terms of performances, trophies and impact on teammates - far, far outweighed the loss of the odd decent innings from Benham.

And besides, we're still at least one bowler short. Berg is an excellent support bowler, but nothing more. He could easily lose his place to a decent English strike bowler. Topley meanwhile is too injury prone to feature on a regular basis, certainly in FC cricket. We no longer have McLaren. And whilst Wheal had a very good end of season last year, it remains to be seen whether that was just a six-week purple patch. Certainly he'd done nothing before that to suggest he was good enough. So if we do happen to have a gem coming through at last, I'd be very confident of them getting a chance.

I can see Weatherley's path to the first XI being hampered by these two signings, but that's it. If anything, it's the likes of Smith, Adams and Berg (none of whom are going to be playing for England) who will see the first team opportunities diminished by these two coming in.

(For me, there's also the personal fact that I am very much county first, country second. It would be amazing to win the county championship with 11 local lads. But given how long it has been for us, just winning it fullstop would be more than enough for me, regardless of how the XI is made up. All I ask for is that you're good enough. Nationality doesn't come into it for me)
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby southwood » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:46 pm

westoelad wrote:I'm certainly not clutching at straws, don't understand the inference. Of course Abbott can be a benefit to youngsters, I never implied otherwise. Equally I'm fully aware that Vince and Dawson have represented England, whether they've proved they're England class, however would be the more relevant issue.
The issue is have Hants got the correct balance between youth development and imported experience? Certainly have no problem if Hants supporters believe they have.

Hart, incidentally, does look promising-has pace from a beautiful high action. Has had his fair share of injuries in common with most youngsters these days. Obviously still very raw.


Hants have gone for potential,with Hart, rather than any 1st class track record. He has shown his bowling quality and potential when he played in the 2nds /Academy and is no mug with the bat either. I hope he receives the right level of support . His injury track record has not been too good in the last couple of seasons.Perhaps the experience of Abbott will benefit him .
In relation to the balance of youth /experience I suspect that Hants may be top heavy with the latter ( Adams ,Smith, Abbott Roussow,Bailey,Ervine and Edwards )especially if the going gets tough in the smaller, even more competitive Div 1.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby westoelad » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:21 am

Rob Key is stating the obvious but what equally is short sighted, particularly as the Kolpak route is almost certainly going to be closed after 2017.Obviously long term success will only be achieved through an effective home grown system for which, as Yorkshire and Durham have illustrated, relies on a strong and structured pyramid league system within the county and any minor county neighbours. Hampshire have an existing pyramid structure,they also have a large catchment area with 3 minor counties to the immediate West. Massive potential therefore to develop a highly effective and exciting academy. It won't be achieved,however, when they are in denial about the ineffectiveness of their current youth policy. The much vaunted Vince has superficially an impressive 1st class average of bordering 40. Look more closely and it reveals prolific scoring in the 2nd division but a paltry average in the 20's in the 1st. Dawson was so highly regarded that he was sent out on loan last season. Nevertheless they may be successful in 2017 but have they a policy long term?.
I don't care frankly but I do wonder if they'd stuck with Benks long term a successful youth structure would have materialised.
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Re: 2016 Hampshire Thread

Postby st_brendy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:55 pm

westoelad wrote:Rob Key is stating the obvious but what equally is short sighted, particularly as the Kolpak route is almost certainly going to be closed after 2017.Obviously long term success will only be achieved through an effective home grown system for which, as Yorkshire and Durham have illustrated, relies on a strong and structured pyramid league system within the county and any minor county neighbours. Hampshire have an existing pyramid structure,they also have a large catchment area with 3 minor counties to the immediate West. Massive potential therefore to develop a highly effective and exciting academy. It won't be achieved,however, when they are in denial about the ineffectiveness of their current youth policy. The much vaunted Vince has superficially an impressive 1st class average of bordering 40. Look more closely and it reveals prolific scoring in the 2nd division but a paltry average in the 20's in the 1st. Dawson was so highly regarded that he was sent out on loan last season. Nevertheless they may be successful in 2017 but have they a policy long term?.
I don't care frankly but I do wonder if they'd stuck with Benks long term a successful youth structure would have materialised.


I highly doubt it, given that we signed Smith, Fidel, McLaren, Best, Coles, Wheater and Topley during his time with us. Yes Crane was given his debut, but at the expense of Briggs. Alsop was first given a chance before Benks joined us, as I recall, but was then never seen again until last season when Adams was injured and Vince called up by England.

Not really anything to do with the youth, but I'm yet to meet a Hants fan who is sad to see Benks gone. Whether or not Craig White is the right replacement though, only time we tell. But certainly, thanks to these signings (including Bailey), this is the first time I've been really looking forward to a new season for a while.

I see that Sussex have just signed their second kolpak of the winter, and Glamorgan are on course to sign one. In addition to the likes of Essex and Derby. But like I say, Hampshire being the side that everyone now hates, it's our signings who attract the attention. Even though they are arguably the best two kolpaks signed to date (and the better they are, surely the easier it is to justify?)
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