Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby westoelad » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:31 pm

southwood wrote:
Durhamfootman wrote:
captaincolly wrote:According to legsidelizzy the maximum penalty is 3 years and an unlimited fine or, if the case concludes in the Magistrates court , the max penalty is 6 months.
I don't know anything about these things so this is a pure guess but I have a feeling a custodial sentence is highly unlikely. Time will tell.

slap on the wrist, maybe a fine, and a don't do it again or we'll throw the book at you


Still got a good chance of a not guilty decision .The CCTV does not tell all. Much depends on the evidence of the witnesses ( the 2 lads being abused/attacked ),the quality of the jury and the judges summing up ,if it all goes that far.
It is not all over until the last ball is bowled.

Yes-The indications coming out of the Stokes camp are that there is a good deal of unseen context to that infamous video footage on The Sun’s website, some of which will undoubtedly come out in court.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:49 pm

Stokes date with the Magistrate is February 13th - the same day England are playing the first T20 in New Zealand!
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:25 pm

captaincolly wrote:Stokes date with the Magistrate is February 13th - the same day England are playing the first T20 in New Zealand!


That will be probably be a plea only .I think he still has to attend.As the offence is triable either way the defendant is only given a choice as to whether he or she would prefer the Magistrates' Court to hear the case after the Magistrates have made their ruling to accept jurisdiction.Stokes will probably elect for trial at Crown court as the other 2 will ,probably,as well.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:31 pm

southwood wrote:
captaincolly wrote:Stokes date with the Magistrate is February 13th - the same day England are playing the first T20 in New Zealand!


That will be probably be a plea only .I think he still has to attend. The defendant is only given a choice as to whether he or she would prefer the Magistrates' Court to hear the case after the Magistrates have made their ruling to accept jurisdiction.Stokes will probably elect for trial at Crown court as the other 2 will ,probably,as well.

I've read two conflicting reports - one was that he has to attend unless he requests a change of date but the other one suggested he might not have to attend in person. I know nothing of the law but I reckon you are right - he will have to attend.
I was reading yesterday about the case of the Worcestershire player who was charged with rape ( the saga that led to the sacking of Steve Rhodes) He was up before the Magistrate this week and the case is going to the crown court - expected to be in January next year!
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:43 pm

captaincolly wrote:
southwood wrote:
captaincolly wrote:Stokes date with the Magistrate is February 13th - the same day England are playing the first T20 in New Zealand!


That will be probably be a plea only .I think he still has to attend. The defendant is only given a choice as to whether he or she would prefer the Magistrates' Court to hear the case after the Magistrates have made their ruling to accept jurisdiction.Stokes will probably elect for trial at Crown court as the other 2 will ,probably,as well.

I've read two conflicting reports - one was that he has to attend unless he requests a change of date but the other one suggested he might not have to attend in person. I know nothing of the law but I reckon you are right - he will have to attend.
I was reading yesterday about the case of the Worcestershire player who was charged with rape ( the saga that led to the sacking of Steve Rhodes) He was up before the Magistrate this week and the case is going to the crown court - expected to be in January next year!


Just found this

5. As the defendant must be asked at plea before venue where s/he wishes the case to be tried, the court cannot proceed in the absence of an individual defendant. Therefore the defendant must normally be present when a plea is entered, (s 18(2)) unless:

their behaviour is too unruly for the court to be able to proceed; or,
the court considers that there is a good reason to proceed in their absence and their legal representative signifies their consent. (s23)

The second reason may apply to Stokes.Depends if the Mags consider playing for your country to be a good reason. :laugh
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 pm

And this is why the case will probably go to Crown Court regardless.

"for reasons of unusual legal, procedural or factual complexity, the case should be tried in the Crown Court. This exception may apply in cases where a very substantial fine is the likely sentence. Other circumstances where this exception will apply are likely to be rare and case specific; the court will rely on the submissions of the parties to identify relevant cases."
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 pm

southwood wrote:And this is why the case will probably go to Crown Court regardless.

"for reasons of unusual legal, procedural or factual complexity, the case should be tried in the Crown Court. This exception may apply in cases where a very substantial fine is the likely sentence. Other circumstances where this exception will apply are likely to be rare and case specific; the court will rely on the submissions of the parties to identify relevant cases."

Yeah. Sounds as if will go to Crown Court so goodness knows how long it will take - are delays of a year par for the course? With the way things have gone the trial will probably end up taking place during next Winters tour!
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:49 pm

captaincolly wrote:
southwood wrote:And this is why the case will probably go to Crown Court regardless.

"for reasons of unusual legal, procedural or factual complexity, the case should be tried in the Crown Court. This exception may apply in cases where a very substantial fine is the likely sentence. Other circumstances where this exception will apply are likely to be rare and case specific; the court will rely on the submissions of the parties to identify relevant cases."

Yeah. Sounds as if will go to Crown Court so goodness knows how long it will take - are delays of a year par for the course? With the way things have gone the trial will probably end up taking place during next Winters tour!


If the investigation is completed to CPS satisfaction the papers will be served on the defence and vice versa fairly quickly. The timetable will depend as well on the amount of Court time to be allocated ( nos of witnesses,defendants,complexity etc) but should be no more than 2/3 days ( a week max probably),availability of witnesses( both defence and prosecution) and lawyers.
If a trial might impact on Stokes international commitments his legal team could feasibly delay the trial, or push for an early hearing,to suit Stokes timetable. However the courts are often quite strong on this sort of tactic ( esp the delaying type) so there could be a trial ,feasibily ,by mid summer.

The received wisdom ,atm , is that Stokes should appear on the first court date to kick the case off. I do not know what the situation is, currently,concerning video link hearings in this sort of case. It is often used for remand hearings, when the defendant is in custody, but its use for Stokes' hearing is pure speculation.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:55 pm

http://www.durhamccc.co.uk/news-and-med ... ward-2018/
This appears to be good news. As ever I don't understand the details. Key thing for me is are they in a strong enough position to offer competitive salaries to players who might be wanted by other clubs and to also make the required signings ahead of next season to boost our chances of going back into div 1? I know the best players won't be keen on coming to a div 2 side but there must be a good few ( probably Kolpak or other 'unofficial' overseas players ) available.
And yet we made two signings months ago and there has been no sign of any significant others.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby Durhamfootman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:01 pm

only trouble with good news, is that FTECB will look at it and pat themselves on the back for a job well done
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:05 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:only trouble with good news, is that FTECB will look at it and pat themselves on the back for a job well done

Yep! And I also suspect the T20 domestic attendances will decline again this coming season after last years woeful efforts.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby Durhamfootman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:07 pm

surely not!

I'd have thought the turnstiles would be packed to the gunwales with folks wanting to watch that sort of quality entertainment (get coat)
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:25 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:surely not!

I'd have thought the turnstiles would be packed to the gunwales with folks wanting to watch that sort of quality entertainment (get coat)

lol! I know that article was focused on financial matters and perhaps things are more stable now but the on-field prospects seem far less promising for me. A squad that's needed strengthening for a number of years is weaker than last year where performances were pretty hopeless across all 3 formats. I think last year we thought there was a slender but realistic chance of overturning the points deficit or at the very least beng able to blame it for just missing out. This year though I'll be very surprised if we go up...although the fact that I'm usually wrong might be a good sign!
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby westoelad » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:27 pm

captaincolly wrote:http://www.durhamccc.co.uk/news-and-media/durham-county-cricket-club-strong-position-look-forward-2018/
This appears to be good news. As ever I don't understand the details. Key thing for me is are they in a strong enough position to offer competitive salaries to players who might be wanted by other clubs and to also make the required signings ahead of next season to boost our chances of going back into div 1? I know the best players won't be keen on coming to a div 2 side but there must be a good few ( probably Kolpak or other 'unofficial' overseas players ) available.
And yet we made two signings months ago and there has been no sign of any significant others.

Salary bill has been further decreased don't forget by the departure of Onions and Jennings, both presumably on big money; also half Colly's salary who has been seconded to FTECB for the whole of the winter.
I'd only be attracted by a Kolpak if he was Simon Harmer or Jofra Archer standard-and they'll be out there and available. Can't see any domestic rejects being worthwhile.
I'm prepared to start with the status quo. Bunny and Coughlin are injury prone and Jennings was a car crash from May onwards. Honestly think Smith,Rimmington and Jones will be better. Keep the faith and FTECB.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:44 pm

westoelad wrote:
captaincolly wrote:http://www.durhamccc.co.uk/news-and-media/durham-county-cricket-club-strong-position-look-forward-2018/
This appears to be good news. As ever I don't understand the details. Key thing for me is are they in a strong enough position to offer competitive salaries to players who might be wanted by other clubs and to also make the required signings ahead of next season to boost our chances of going back into div 1? I know the best players won't be keen on coming to a div 2 side but there must be a good few ( probably Kolpak or other 'unofficial' overseas players ) available.
And yet we made two signings months ago and there has been no sign of any significant others.

Salary bill has been further decreased don't forget by the departure of Onions and Jennings, both presumably on big money; also half Colly's salary who has been seconded to FTECB for the whole of the winter.
I'd only be attracted by a Kolpak if he was Simon Harmer or Jofra Archer standard-and they'll be out there and available. Can't see any domestic rejects being worthwhile.
I'm prepared to start with the status quo. Bunny and Coughlin are injury prone and Jennings was a car crash from May onwards. Honestly think Smith,Rimmington and Jones will be better. Keep the faith and FTECB.

Yes. I also can't see any domestic players on the market being an option. Very encouraging start by Jones for Scotland- could have easily had two centuries! I think as ever a lot will depend on the young bowlers fitness - and Wood!
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