Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby meninblue » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:14 pm

I know i am late in posting on this, however Durham being relegated is a shocker. And the financial penalty, But i fail to understand that if the county is struggling financially then what is logic behind adding fine to their debt :hmmm Just because it went into loss they have taken this action :?: What has gone wrong. The administration, or ECB.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:25 pm

Adi wrote:I know i am late in posting on this, however Durham being relegated is a shocker. And the financial penalty, But i fail to understand that if the county is struggling financially then what is logic behind adding fine to their debt :hmmm Just because it went into loss they have taken this action :?: What has gone wrong. The administration, or ECB.

The sanctions were relegation, loss of test status plus points deductions in return for the ECB writing off some of the debts so there were no fines or financial punishments.

It's a long story but essentially the problem was that Durham were struggling to generate sufficient revenue to service the debt. The actual amount of debt was small in comparison to other international grounds but , for one reason or another , those grounds generate enough income to service the debts.

Who is to blame for the sorry affair is a matter of opinion!
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby meninblue » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:01 pm

captaincolly wrote:
Adi wrote:I know i am late in posting on this, however Durham being relegated is a shocker. And the financial penalty, But i fail to understand that if the county is struggling financially then what is logic behind adding fine to their debt :hmmm Just because it went into loss they have taken this action :?: What has gone wrong. The administration, or ECB.

The sanctions were relegation, loss of test status plus points deductions in return for the ECB writing off some of the debts so there were no fines or financial punishments.

It's a long story but essentially the problem was that Durham were struggling to generate sufficient revenue to service the debt. The actual amount of debt was small in comparison to other international grounds but , for one reason or another , those grounds generate enough income to service the debts.

Who is to blame for the sorry affair is a matter of opinion!



Revenue should be taken care by administration or whoever the management is. Offcourse cricket governing body can play some part by providing funds.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby Durhamfootman » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:22 pm

captaincolly wrote:I wonder how the new test allocation system is going to work? Getting rid of the existing bidding process must be a tacit admission by the ECB that it was deeply flawed.

I'm wondering when Sorry lose their staging rights, and whether that will make the slightest bit of difference to where the last test of the summer goes.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:34 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:
captaincolly wrote:I wonder how the new test allocation system is going to work? Getting rid of the existing bidding process must be a tacit admission by the ECB that it was deeply flawed.

I'm wondering when Sorry lose their staging rights, and whether that will make the slightest bit of difference to where the last test of the summer goes.

They'll probably get an extra test each year!
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby westoelad » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:20 am

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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby meninblue » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:06 pm

Is it not possible that if Durham Management market the game well, revenue issue can be sorted.More advertisement boards on boundary, give the name of some company to one stand, or like Wankhede sell couple of boxes to corporate and get money. There may be more ways to get revenue. Here in India 1 Ranji match a day is telecast. Have Durham earned through broadcast rights and advertisements?
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:32 pm

Adi wrote:Is it not possible that if Durham Management market the game well, revenue issue can be sorted.More advertisement boards on boundary, give the name of some company to one stand, or like Wankhede sell couple of boxes to corporate and get money. There may be more ways to get revenue. Here in India 1 Ranji match a day is telecast. Have Durham earned through broadcast rights and advertisements?

I think the problem is that Durham lost lots of money on test matches and the costs of staging them are extreme. Debt also racked up because of necessary ground redevelopment - installing lights etc.
Most other international grounds are struggling but they survive either because someone has come in and put money in, council had stepped in to help with debts etc. Durham also struggle to sell T20 tickets for the domestic competition.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:28 pm

captaincolly wrote:
Adi wrote:Is it not possible that if Durham Management market the game well, revenue issue can be sorted.More advertisement boards on boundary, give the name of some company to one stand, or like Wankhede sell couple of boxes to corporate and get money. There may be more ways to get revenue. Here in India 1 Ranji match a day is telecast. Have Durham earned through broadcast rights and advertisements?

I think the problem is that Durham lost lots of money on test matches and the costs of staging them are extreme. Debt also racked up because of necessary ground redevelopment - installing lights etc.
Most other international grounds are struggling but they survive either because someone has come in and put money in, council had stepped in to help with debts etc. Durham also struggle to sell T20 tickets for the domestic competition.


Careful with the reasons for debt - the lights were paid for by the ECB. Durham may have had to bear the costs of securing the planning permission though - consultants reports etc. They only lost money on Tests that were not attractive ( most of them ),scheduled for the colder months of the season and in the same week as a Test in the same series finished 85 miles down the road. The ODI's have been relatively successful though but they only last for one day so the impact on income is not substantial especially when some of the extraneous costs are taken into account.
The last part about lack of a 'sugar daddy' keeping them afloat is correct along with the poor returns from T20 and the 50 over cup copmpetition.
Durham do not benefit directly from the televised games as the ECB gets that first then distributes a proportion to each county. I think each county has to be prepared to host any game that Sky selects.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby captaincolly » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:40 pm

southwood wrote:
captaincolly wrote:
Adi wrote:Is it not possible that if Durham Management market the game well, revenue issue can be sorted.More advertisement boards on boundary, give the name of some company to one stand, or like Wankhede sell couple of boxes to corporate and get money. There may be more ways to get revenue. Here in India 1 Ranji match a day is telecast. Have Durham earned through broadcast rights and advertisements?

I think the problem is that Durham lost lots of money on test matches and the costs of staging them are extreme. Debt also racked up because of necessary ground redevelopment - installing lights etc.
Most other international grounds are struggling but they survive either because someone has come in and put money in, council had stepped in to help with debts etc. Durham also struggle to sell T20 tickets for the domestic competition.


Careful with the reasons for debt - the lights were paid for by the ECB. Durham may have had to bear the costs of securing the planning permission though - consultants reports etc. They only lost money on Tests that were not attractive ( most of them ),scheduled for the colder months of the season and in the same week as a Test in the same series finished 85 miles down the road. The ODI's have been relatively successful though but they only last for one day so the impact on income is not substantial especially when some of the extraneous costs are taken into account.
The last part about lack of a 'sugar daddy' keeping them afloat is correct along with the poor returns from T20 and the 50 over cup copmpetition.
Durham do not benefit directly from the televised games as the ECB gets that first then distributes a proportion to each county. I think each county has to be prepared to host any game that Sky selects.

I agree. The appalling scheduling of the tests and - with the obvious Ashes exception - low key opposition are largely to blame for struggling to sell tickets.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby westoelad » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:16 pm

Just had a closer look at the CC fixtures and the potentially unfair system of only playing 5 counties twice seems to have come out in our favour. We play all of last seasons bottom 3 twice plus Kent and Worcs. I'd expect Notts and Sussex to be our main challengers who we meet only once and each at the Riverside. Notts and Sussex to play each other twice. So good old FTECB.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby meninblue » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:52 am

captaincolly wrote:
Adi wrote:Is it not possible that if Durham Management market the game well, revenue issue can be sorted.More advertisement boards on boundary, give the name of some company to one stand, or like Wankhede sell couple of boxes to corporate and get money. There may be more ways to get revenue. Here in India 1 Ranji match a day is telecast. Have Durham earned through broadcast rights and advertisements?

I think the problem is that Durham lost lots of money on test matches and the costs of staging them are extreme. Debt also racked up because of necessary ground redevelopment - installing lights etc.
Most other international grounds are struggling but they survive either because someone has come in and put money in, council had stepped in to help with debts etc. Durham also struggle to sell T20 tickets for the domestic competition.


Ticket revenue is not that much even in India when compared to revenue through rights given for broadcasters and on the ground advertisements. This revenue goes to BCCI i suppose but it is so much that BCCI can take care of probably every ground. The management need to see why BCCI is financially very successful. There could be some ways which ECB are missing.How good is ECB doing financially. Is it in a position that it can solve issues of counties which are facing operqating cash crunch.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:28 am

I think the ECB has reserves of around £70M, which I believe is enough to keep county cricket going for 2 years without any additional income... although southwood probably knows more about these things than I do
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:45 pm

Adi wrote:
captaincolly wrote:
Adi wrote:Is it not possible that if Durham Management market the game well, revenue issue can be sorted.More advertisement boards on boundary, give the name of some company to one stand, or like Wankhede sell couple of boxes to corporate and get money. There may be more ways to get revenue. Here in India 1 Ranji match a day is telecast. Have Durham earned through broadcast rights and advertisements?

I think the problem is that Durham lost lots of money on test matches and the costs of staging them are extreme. Debt also racked up because of necessary ground redevelopment - installing lights etc.
Most other international grounds are struggling but they survive either because someone has come in and put money in, council had stepped in to help with debts etc. Durham also struggle to sell T20 tickets for the domestic competition.


Ticket revenue is not that much even in India when compared to revenue through rights given for broadcasters and on the ground advertisements. This revenue goes to BCCI i suppose but it is so much that BCCI can take care of probably every ground. The management need to see why BCCI is financially very successful. There could be some ways which ECB are missing.How good is ECB doing financially. Is it in a position that it can solve issues of counties which are facing operqating cash crunch.


The ECB appear to rely very heavily on the TV money provided by SKY, sponsorship and revenue from Test and ODI ticket sales . They are very reluctant ,as shown by their approach to the Durham situation, to support Counties over and above the fees they pay to counties each year .This is ,in essence ,a subsidy which is the principal source of income for the Counties. They also provide grants for some ground improvements eg helping counties improve the ground drainage and providing the capital cost of floodlights for certain stadia.
Their stance is not to bail out counties financially as they believe they should in general be self supporting
The ECB do support cricket financially at all levels ,from Test to local recreational clubs and Women's Cricket , in a wide variety of ways provided it falls within the criteria.

The ECB is in a position, as the games governing body in England and Wales , but it is a matter of what they do and how they do it that will determine whether they can solve the issues. It is important to note that the ECB is governed by representatives of the 38 first-class and minor counties and the MCC. It is headed by the Management Board (with fifteen members), a First-Class Forum (for first-class cricket) and a Recreational Forum.It has to persuade all its constituent parts to agree on a a course of action - not an easy task with different and competing agendas often each part.
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Re: Who's Sorry Now: Down by the Riverside

Postby southwood » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:47 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:I think the ECB has reserves of around £70M, which I believe is enough to keep county cricket going for 2 years without any additional income... although southwood probably knows more about these things than I do


Unless Her Majesty passes away during the season. All games will be suspended then and some of the reserves will be used to compensate the counties :dunno
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