Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Read the more in depth thoughts of our posters on various cricketing issues, topics and events - and please take the opportunity to leave feedback and enter into debate.

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby Aidan11 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:45 pm

England's_No7 wrote:
18 is the lowest first class score since 1959 and is the lowest score in English cricket for about 90 years, when there were uncovered pitches.


No it isn't. I can remember a CC game in the 80s where Essex bowled Surrey out for 14.
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:05 pm

Aidan11 wrote:
England's_No7 wrote:
18 is the lowest first class score since 1959 and is the lowest score in English cricket for about 90 years, when there were uncovered pitches.


No it isn't. I can remember a CC game in the 80s where Essex bowled Surrey out for 14.

On Twitter, that's what one person posted but when i just looked it up, it is actually the 2nd time that it has happened in the last 90 years in English cricket.
2011 Sri Lanka v Australia ODI FL guru
2011 India v West Indies ODI FL guru
2012 Bangladesh Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 West Indies v New Zealand Test FL guru
2012 Sri Lanka Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 India v England Test FL guru
2014 Australian Open Tennis FL guru
2014 Australia v England T20 FL guru
2017 ICC Champions Trophy FL guru
User avatar
dan08
 
Posts: 19340
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: England, Kent, Malaysia, Manchester United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby Aidan11 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:18 pm

Here is the scorecard from the Surrey v Essex game.

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/S ... 43511.html


Henry Blofeld tells the story of how he was a newspaper journalist at that game but had to leave an hour early just as Essex were all out. So he phoned his copy in and, not expecting much to happen in the final hour he asked them to finish off by saying "Surrey were blank for blank at the close and just fill in whatever the score is".
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby DeltaAlpha » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:15 pm

England's No7 seems to be very steamed-up about this; it's a matter of complete indifference to me. :dunno
2011-12 CMS winter chess champion
2011 CMS spring chess champion
DeltaAlpha
 
Posts: 6277
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Lancashire
Team(s) Supported: England

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:42 pm

DeltaAlpha wrote:England's No7 seems to be very steamed-up about this

:D Not really. I just think it's another bad decision by the ECB. They should have left it as it was. It was fine when there were 2 Universities playing as the standard was alright but now more and more Uni's have been granted first class status, the standard is diminishing and means there won't be high quality cricket. Oxford and Cambridge are just about good enough but the other 4 aren't which is why county batsmen/bowlers have better records than they should have. You could sort of compare their first class records to Monty Panesar's Test record. Overall, it looks quite impressive but when you look at who the performances have come against, then you realise he is just an average player.
2011 Sri Lanka v Australia ODI FL guru
2011 India v West Indies ODI FL guru
2012 Bangladesh Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 West Indies v New Zealand Test FL guru
2012 Sri Lanka Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 India v England Test FL guru
2014 Australian Open Tennis FL guru
2014 Australia v England T20 FL guru
2017 ICC Champions Trophy FL guru
User avatar
dan08
 
Posts: 19340
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: England, Kent, Malaysia, Manchester United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:50 pm

If Monty is an average player, then what does that make the likes of you or I then?
Asia Cup 2012 guru
SA vs Oz 2011 combined guru
SA vs Bangladesh Tests guru
NZ vs WI Tests guru
2014 French Open guru
T20 Blast 2014 guru
India vs WI ODIs 2014 guru
2016 French Open guru
2016 Wimbledon guru
2016 RL50 Cup guru
Premier League Final Placings Prediction League 2016/7 guru
England v SA ODIs 2017 guru
Guru.

D/L wrote:Words fail me for once.


17/04/17 - 'The day that history was made'

20/04/17 - Better than Bolt.
User avatar
braveneutral
 
Posts: 20726
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:22 pm
Location: In between the hemispheres
Team(s) Supported: Northants amongst others.

I suppose.

At times.

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:52 pm

braveneutral wrote:If Monty is an average player, then what does that make the likes of you or I then?

Average in terms of an international player. He's great at domestic level. Anyway, that's another discussion that we have already had numerous times.
2011 Sri Lanka v Australia ODI FL guru
2011 India v West Indies ODI FL guru
2012 Bangladesh Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 West Indies v New Zealand Test FL guru
2012 Sri Lanka Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 India v England Test FL guru
2014 Australian Open Tennis FL guru
2014 Australia v England T20 FL guru
2017 ICC Champions Trophy FL guru
User avatar
dan08
 
Posts: 19340
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: England, Kent, Malaysia, Manchester United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby DeltaAlpha » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:36 pm

What I don't see, ENo7, is what negative effect it has. It's not keeping anyone more worthy out as far as I can see, and any effect on county players' figures isn't likely to be greatly significant - that is, if you think they're significant in the first place - and all will be similarly affected anyway.
2011-12 CMS winter chess champion
2011 CMS spring chess champion
DeltaAlpha
 
Posts: 6277
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Lancashire
Team(s) Supported: England

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:44 pm

DeltaAlpha wrote:What I don't see, ENo7, is what negative effect it has. It's not keeping anyone more worthy out as far as I can see, and any effect on county players' figures isn't likely to be greatly significant - that is, if you think they're significant in the first place - and all will be similarly affected anyway.

Take Nick Compton for example. He averaged 37 before the University match, after 1 innings of 236 against the Uni side, his average is up to 39. You can see how his average will keep building up nearly every time he plays against a Uni side. Instead of averaging 40 at the end of his career, it might be 45 instead.

For a country that wants Test status, they have to show consistent performances over a period of time. The same logic should apply to teams who want first class status. Out of the 4 new Uni's with first class status, only Loughborough have done that. The other 3 have been average performers which is why they usually get thrashed when they play county sides because they aren't actually that good at their own level never mind an even higher level.
2011 Sri Lanka v Australia ODI FL guru
2011 India v West Indies ODI FL guru
2012 Bangladesh Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 West Indies v New Zealand Test FL guru
2012 Sri Lanka Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 India v England Test FL guru
2014 Australian Open Tennis FL guru
2014 Australia v England T20 FL guru
2017 ICC Champions Trophy FL guru
User avatar
dan08
 
Posts: 19340
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: England, Kent, Malaysia, Manchester United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:46 pm

Yes, but consistency isn't everything is it. Otherwise, by this logic, every side would draw every game and the CC would be tied exactly every season by nine teams in each division.
Asia Cup 2012 guru
SA vs Oz 2011 combined guru
SA vs Bangladesh Tests guru
NZ vs WI Tests guru
2014 French Open guru
T20 Blast 2014 guru
India vs WI ODIs 2014 guru
2016 French Open guru
2016 Wimbledon guru
2016 RL50 Cup guru
Premier League Final Placings Prediction League 2016/7 guru
England v SA ODIs 2017 guru
Guru.

D/L wrote:Words fail me for once.


17/04/17 - 'The day that history was made'

20/04/17 - Better than Bolt.
User avatar
braveneutral
 
Posts: 20726
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:22 pm
Location: In between the hemispheres
Team(s) Supported: Northants amongst others.

I suppose.

At times.

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:51 pm

braveneutral wrote:Yes, but consistency isn't everything is it. Otherwise, by this logic, every side would draw every game and the CC would be tied exactly every season by nine teams in each division.

Well, the question is have the Uni sides put in consistent performances and shown any signs of improvement over a long period of time. As i said only Loughborough have (won the last 2 Uni championships). Leeds/Bradford, Cardiff, Durham haven't really improved at all and i feel that they have only got first class status for the sake of it (just because there a Uni side and not because they have done well at Uni level).
2011 Sri Lanka v Australia ODI FL guru
2011 India v West Indies ODI FL guru
2012 Bangladesh Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 West Indies v New Zealand Test FL guru
2012 Sri Lanka Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 India v England Test FL guru
2014 Australian Open Tennis FL guru
2014 Australia v England T20 FL guru
2017 ICC Champions Trophy FL guru
User avatar
dan08
 
Posts: 19340
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: England, Kent, Malaysia, Manchester United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:03 pm

Why should they need to improve? Everyone knows what they are getting. If anything, they will never improve as they have a consistent pool of players to pick from.
Asia Cup 2012 guru
SA vs Oz 2011 combined guru
SA vs Bangladesh Tests guru
NZ vs WI Tests guru
2014 French Open guru
T20 Blast 2014 guru
India vs WI ODIs 2014 guru
2016 French Open guru
2016 Wimbledon guru
2016 RL50 Cup guru
Premier League Final Placings Prediction League 2016/7 guru
England v SA ODIs 2017 guru
Guru.

D/L wrote:Words fail me for once.


17/04/17 - 'The day that history was made'

20/04/17 - Better than Bolt.
User avatar
braveneutral
 
Posts: 20726
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:22 pm
Location: In between the hemispheres
Team(s) Supported: Northants amongst others.

I suppose.

At times.

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:10 pm

braveneutral wrote:Why should they need to improve? Everyone knows what they are getting. If anything, they will never improve as they have a consistent pool of players to pick from.

If counties had a choice, nearly all (if not all) of them would choose to play another county rather than a University but unfortunately for them, they are forced to play them as MCCU's have to play 3 matches a year against counties (2 first class).
2011 Sri Lanka v Australia ODI FL guru
2011 India v West Indies ODI FL guru
2012 Bangladesh Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 West Indies v New Zealand Test FL guru
2012 Sri Lanka Premier League T20 FL guru
2012 India v England Test FL guru
2014 Australian Open Tennis FL guru
2014 Australia v England T20 FL guru
2017 ICC Champions Trophy FL guru
User avatar
dan08
 
Posts: 19340
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 5:28 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: England, Kent, Malaysia, Manchester United

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby DeltaAlpha » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:12 pm

Don't get me started on batting averages, ENo7 - the question is, is 39 significantly different from 37? I think not.

But I still don't see what negative effect is caused by these teams having first class status; it may or may not just be "for the sake of it", but I don't see that it matters.
2011-12 CMS winter chess champion
2011 CMS spring chess champion
DeltaAlpha
 
Posts: 6277
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Lancashire
Team(s) Supported: England

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:12 pm

England's_No7 wrote:
braveneutral wrote:Why should they need to improve? Everyone knows what they are getting. If anything, they will never improve as they have a consistent pool of players to pick from.

If counties had a choice, nearly all (if not all) of them would choose to play another county rather than a University but unfortunately for them, they are forced to play them as MCCU's have to play 3 matches a year against counties (2 first class).

How do you know that is what they would choose?
Asia Cup 2012 guru
SA vs Oz 2011 combined guru
SA vs Bangladesh Tests guru
NZ vs WI Tests guru
2014 French Open guru
T20 Blast 2014 guru
India vs WI ODIs 2014 guru
2016 French Open guru
2016 Wimbledon guru
2016 RL50 Cup guru
Premier League Final Placings Prediction League 2016/7 guru
England v SA ODIs 2017 guru
Guru.

D/L wrote:Words fail me for once.


17/04/17 - 'The day that history was made'

20/04/17 - Better than Bolt.
User avatar
braveneutral
 
Posts: 20726
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:22 pm
Location: In between the hemispheres
Team(s) Supported: Northants amongst others.

I suppose.

At times.

PreviousNext

Return to Cricketing Blogs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests