The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[OffStumpYorker]

I odnt understand why the ECB is seen as the 'bad guy' here, they've been consistent in thier message and it is KP that has had to back down and agree that they were in the right.

could the ECB have handled it differently, probably not, especially with the KP media machine (inc Piers 'I hacked Phones' Morgan) behind him, and people who think the sun shine out of his arse defending him against the big bad ECB. Yet the ECB have to some extent pandered to his whims over the years, but the tide has changed and they are nolonger willing to put up with these tantrums that he throws.

And this situation is very similar to what happened with Moores, a public spat, KP threatening to resign unless the ECB did something, Moores insisting KP be removed as captain, the ECB sacking Moores, and then sacking KP as captain for the campaign against the coach.

In the end it was KP that announced his retirement then u-turned in a big way in a video, KP has to take responsibility for his actions and his retirement and texting of dergogatory or banter (depending on who you believe) messages to the opposition giving them the ammunition to undermined his team mates, and all that Strauss and Flower built.

It is KP that is the loser, and I couldnt care less if he ever pulls on an england shirt ever again, as no single person is bigger than the team, and no person is 100% secure. Players come and go for teams but the team lives on, and i will support England and the XI men that step onto the field of play regardless of who is or isnt in there, Win, Lose or Draw.

I also dont buy into the KP fan base that state people wont turn up to watch games if KP is not playing, there may be a few but does cricket really need these 'fly-by-night' fans, that would turn thier back as soon as england start losing?

Lost for words. This is the ECB that doesnt punish Swann for publically passing derogatory comments regarding a teammate. This is the same ECB that doesnt punish Stuart Broad that contained swear words but punishes KP for the "Knightgate". This is the same ECB that allowed Strauss to quit one of the shorter formats but changed the rules when they came know to about KP's possible retirement. This is the same ECB who leaked the details of a private meeting but are reportedly annoyed with KP's you tube video.
So consistent.

Swanns bio refered to a time when KP was the captain and the team was in disarray, personally I've not read the remarks but almost everyone admits that KP was an unfit captain who was only selected becuase the media mounted a campaign to have him as captain, just as they did with Flintoff who was another person who was unsuitable to be captain.

He also believe that Swann stated in the same bio that KP was a great batsmen.

As for the ECB leaking, just because an individual leaked a document to the press or said something to them it does not mean that it was santioned by the ECB, just insiders in the police used to get paid for information on the more juicy and salacious crimes that were being investigated, and often attributed to an unnamed yet informed source within the Police.

As I said in the a post until the press name the source we will not know who leaked this information, what their reason for doing so was and if it was sanctioned so to state the ECB had any hand in it is to state something that is unknown and can be plausibly denied by any party involved, and thus there they recieve the benefit of the doubt.

Its also plausible that it was KP's people that leaked this for thier own advantage and told the press to attruibute it to the ECB to cast aspersions on the character/nature of the ECB to try and force their hand.

All things are instances mentioned above are plausable, and so need to be consdered as being possible.

Sadly there are people that just want to look at one answer and dogmatically stick to that point of view regardless of the other possibilities.

Edit : Also the Ashes Diary written by Simon Hughes and Strauss, make a few choice remarks about the period before he took over and what it was like under the Moores/Pietersen regime and why he and flower had to change the attitude.

[ddb]

I don't see what media is doing wrong here. When some media exposed Salman and his gang about fixing as well as 5 IPL players it was very helpful for the cricket. So we all welcomed it. But now that even though this is not useful for cricket in general, it is still useful for English cricket and particularly the ECB and English thinktank. And yes, media will never tell these stories privately because such efforts and stories would not bring them huge revenues. They will try to maximise revenue by leaking in public. Where they get from or which paper exposes it , is irrelevant to me. The information they leak is of relevance IMO. So why should the media be blamed now. We have to accept their findings for betterment of cricket. We cannot be choosy as far as the information coming is true, as it was in this mess.

Seriously? Maybe objectivity, not pushing an agenda against a player like Pringle, Henderson etc.

Anyway, Holding on it all:

http://www.wisdenindia.com/the-kp-fiasc ... -standards

[hopeforthebest]

I nearly choked on my sandwich when the ECB statement said they would hold private talks behind closed doors.

I think after you've stopped choking you should read the ECB statement again. You might see you misread it.

[meninblue]

I don't see what media is doing wrong here. When some media exposed Salman and his gang about fixing as well as 5 IPL players it was very helpful for the cricket. So we all welcomed it. But now that even though this is not useful for cricket in general, it is still useful for English cricket and particularly the ECB and English thinktank. And yes, media will never tell these stories privately because such efforts and stories would not bring them huge revenues. They will try to maximise revenue by leaking in public. Where they get from or which paper exposes it , is irrelevant to me. The information they leak is of relevance IMO. So why should the media be blamed now. We have to accept their findings for betterment of cricket. We cannot be choosy as far as the information coming is true, as it was in this mess.

Seriously? Maybe objectivity, not pushing an agenda against a player like Pringle, Henderson etc.

Anyway, Holding on it all:

http://www.wisdenindia.com/the-kp-fiasc ... -standards

Yes, seriously

[ddb]

I nearly choked on my sandwich when the ECB statement said they would hold private talks behind closed doors.

I think after you've stopped choking you should read the ECB statement again. You might see you misread it.

“Critically, those discussions should take place behind closed doors, rather than in the media spotlight."

[Kim]

I don't see what media is doing wrong here. When some media exposed Salman and his gang about fixing as well as 5 IPL players it was very helpful for the cricket. So we all welcomed it. But now that even though this is not useful for cricket in general, it is still useful for English cricket and particularly the ECB and English thinktank. And yes, media will never tell these stories privately because such efforts and stories would not bring them huge revenues. They will try to maximise revenue by leaking in public. Where they get from or which paper exposes it , is irrelevant to me. The information they leak is of relevance IMO. So why should the media be blamed now. We have to accept their findings for betterment of cricket. We cannot be choosy as far as the information coming is true, as it was in this mess.

Seriously? Maybe objectivity, not pushing an agenda against a player like Pringle, Henderson etc.

Anyway, Holding on it all:

http://www.wisdenindia.com/the-kp-fiasc ... -standards

Thta has been disgracefull but totally expected

[meninblue]

I expect the ICC anti corruption unit and affiliated bodies to share information privately, but the media would never share it privately. Very very rarely would they take that approach.

[Arthur Crabtree]

We knew about the texts because of the Daily Mail article. Im not sure we know how the ECB found out.

They didnt have to see the texts to know they exist or what is in them is the point. They havent seen them now. My view is they wouldnt have taken the action they did if they werent 100% sure of what had gone on.

The wording seems to be that KP had to confirm that he had not sent derogatory texts. Which at least implies that there is no proof that he did. Unless Hugh Morris is being disingenuous, which isn't a good stance to take. Neither would, in my opinion, expecting that someone should have to prove themselves innocent to an accuser who lacks evidence to the contrary.

It looks to me that the ECB found some benefit in turning these claims into an actual offence, as quickly as possible. And in doing so they have gifted an advantage to the opposition. This doesn't seem either admirable, fair or productive.

HM: '"The success of the England team has been built on a unity of purpose and trust.' Including leaking private information to the press?

[OffStumpYorker]

I don't see what media is doing wrong here. When some media exposed Salman and his gang about fixing as well as 5 IPL players it was very helpful for the cricket. So we all welcomed it. But now that even though this is not useful for cricket in general, it is still useful for English cricket and particularly the ECB and English thinktank. And yes, media will never tell these stories privately because such efforts and stories would not bring them huge revenues. They will try to maximise revenue by leaking in public. Where they get from or which paper exposes it , is irrelevant to me. The information they leak is of relevance IMO. So why should the media be blamed now. We have to accept their findings for betterment of cricket. We cannot be choosy as far as the information coming is true, as it was in this mess.

Seriously? Maybe objectivity, not pushing an agenda against a player like Pringle, Henderson etc.

Anyway, Holding on it all:

http://www.wisdenindia.com/the-kp-fiasc ... -standards

Again what proof is there that the ECB sanctioned these leakes to the press? Or that at least some of these leaks didnt come from the KP camp but on the understanding the Press attribute them to the ECB to cast asspertions.

THe Press in this country isnt known for holding the moral highground, what with phone hacking, paying police officers of all ranks for information, as well as employees of the royals, and civil servants.

so until the press name the person repsonsible its difficult to say if this was an 'official' leak, or more someone getting some benefit (free meal, or couple of grand), they wont name a junior person in the ECB as it will lose them the inside track, if its a senior person then they have nothing to lose by naming them and it casts more aspertions on the ECB espceially if they get a nice juicy headling and full page article.

Either way I rarely belive anything the media press says on these matters unless its classified as an official statement even then you often have to look at the actual statement as its been cut to suit a particular point of view.

[meninblue]

Well, first the ECB were accused of dropping KP unnecessarily. Today they have to prove that they have not leaked the information. Still ECB is the bad guy, not KP Don't players leak the information to public directly like they will be playing certain tournaments etc. Where is the privacy then ? Sorry but one cannot buy his cake as well as eat it.

[hopeforthebest]

[quote="ddb
Again what proof is there that the ECB sanctioned these leakes to the press? Or that at least some of these leaks didnt come from the KP camp but on the understanding the Press attribute them to the ECB to cast asspertions.

THe Press in this country isnt known for holding the moral highground, what with phone hacking, paying police officers of all ranks for information, as well as employees of the royals, and civil servants.

so until the press name the person repsonsible its difficult to say if this was an 'official' leak, or more someone getting some benefit (free meal, or couple of grand), they wont name a junior person in the ECB as it will lose them the inside track, if its a senior person then they have nothing to lose by naming them and it casts more aspertions on the ECB espceially if they get a nice juicy headling and full page article.

Either way I rarely belive anything the media press says on these matters unless its classified as an official statement even then you often have to look at the actual statement as its been cut to suit a particular point of view.

It's nice to meet a cynic after my own heart.

[Arthur Crabtree]

An advantage? The only leak I know of is the one about KP not in fact wanting rest but wanting to play IPL instead of tests.

This leak was to counteract KPs retirement statement where he said it was all about wanting rest. It wasnt about seeking advantage but about (albeit sneakily) letting the world know the true situation. If KP hasnt been so economical with the truth it wouldnt have happened.

Obv if there have been other leaks, above might be BS.

Not that two wrongs make a right - but how did the press know about Kps unhapiness aboy the parody account?

IMO its been a PR war on both sides (EG Kps video ) and its an unfortanate fact of life that leaking is part of it. Think theres a danger of beating the ECB over the head over an unpleasant tactic while totalling ignoring just how badly KP has apparently behaved.

There was that leak, and then one about him wanting to miss the NZ series, and play all formats except during the IPL. We don't know for certain if this is true. It may have been an extreme bargaining position in order that he might secure a slightly less advantageous outcome. I can't remember all the press, there may be more. But this fragment that found its way into the press can't ever be properly evaluated. yet this has been the core of the antipathy that has built up around Pietersen.

If you leave out hearsay, I can't see that Pietersen has acted badly at all. Just the futile and guarded protests of a vulnerable and isolated person, who wants to keep on playing cricket, with reasonable accommodations, but doesn't know who to trust.

[#Brown]

Listening to the comments made by Andrew Strauss it sounds like it could be a while before kp comes back, if at all.

"Further discussions need to take place to establish whether it is possible to regain the trust and mutual respect required to ensure all parties are able to focus on playing cricket and to maintain the unity of purpose that has served us so well in recent years"

This is all such a shame.

[Kim]

We knew about the texts because of the Daily Mail article. Im not sure we know how the ECB found out.

They didnt have to see the texts to know they exist or what is in them is the point. They havent seen them now. My view is they wouldnt have taken the action they did if they werent 100% sure of what had gone on.

The wording seems to be that KP had to confirm that he had not sent derogatory texts. Which at least implies that there is no proof that he did. Unless Hugh Morris is being disingenuous, which isn't a good stance to take. Neither would, in my opinion, expecting that someone should have to prove themselves innocent to an accuser who lacks evidence to the contrary.

It looks to me that the ECB found some benefit in turning these claims into an actual offence, as quickly as possible. And in doing so they have gifted an advantage to the opposition. This doesn't seem either admirable, fair or productive.

HM: '"The success of the England team has been built on a unity of purpose and trust.' Including leaking private information to the press?

There wasnt. I have no proof that Australia exists cos Ive never been there but Im pretty sure it does. The media said the texts existed, the SA management said they existed, Kp didnt deny they existed and I think you can be pretty sure players on both sides would have known they existed. The word was they were derogatory or critical. SA management said they were banter. In view of this is it really unreasonable for the ECB to ask KP just to confirm they were not bad mouthing the captain. They didnt ask to see the texts or know what was in them. They didnt even intrude on his privacy by asking SA managemnet or anyone to show them the texts.

You say they lacked evidence. I say we dont know what evidence they had but assume they wouldnt have done this without being pretty damned certain of where they stood.

[D/L]

I am quite devastatingly pissed at all those who are drawing such strong generalisations about KP's personality.

But its alright for you to draw generalisations about those that work in the ECB and label them as untrustworthy, incompetant, even though you dont know them. Interesting, point of view.....

Good point, well made, OSY. Double standards at work there, perhaps.

Just heard Strauss's press conference on the wireless. Thought he acquitted himself with dignity. His saying that it may be a while before Pietersen may again be considered for an England squad must give some indication of the offensiveness contained in those texts.