International Football thread

[Chris de Burgh]

I'm no expert when it comes to tactics in football, however England look like they struggle to retain the ball and lack the technical ability of their European counterparts. You look at Italy, Germany or Spain and they look comfortable on the ball, work the opposition and create opportunities. English players as a whole rely on grit and (as mentioned earlier by SP) hoping that one of the many through balls that they try out work.

Maybe it's the coaching at a younger level or the lack of English players getting experience in foreign leagues but when England come across a side that is technically better the them they get found out and all the "British grit" is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Another possible reason could be that a lot of other world sides play as a unit and work for each other, sometimes with England it seems like they're trying for personal glory instead of the team.

[Alviro Patterson]

The reality is England don't have the personnel to play dynamic football and i'm not sure if Hodgson has the tactical nous to employ it.

Why dont they? If they want to play like German teams all they need to do is work harder. Its not about technique(well it is, but not terminally) but about work rate and movement.

I mean look at Bayern... they dont have to play any extravegant passing or through balls, the passes are made easier because the runner makes it so... intelligent and well timed running makes passing look better. England get the ball and there is never an option, no movement, and so the defenders can suck into the ball and close you down. That is the key.... most English fans, managers or pundits have little understanding of the creation of space in a football match... the answer when nothing is on is to take the 10-90 chance and throw the ball in the air... if the opposition doesnt balls it up, it gets you nowhere.

I find it strange you would slag Scolari's method off... his players movement and setup was very good. They found space between the lines because their players movements created such space and in unison too. The fullbacks double up with wingers onto the opposition, which sucks the defence wider and allows the strikers to drop back and link with the midfield, or the midfield to push into the gaps created and operate in areas of space which draws the last line of defence in and creates exposible space... the key is that, the opposition team is countering your movement so much that when they get the ball they are forced to play hurried because you have men between the channels blocking the space... or you hoof the ball back to them....

On the flipside, England simply went for killer balls that never came off....there was never any process of wearing down the opposition or working the ball. The problem then stems when Frank Lampard actually has a through ball pay off and we have to hear about what a great player he is... he just wastes possession all the time through a match.

For a start Roy Hodgson has a limited pool of players to choose from, let alone world class options.

You seem to have misunderstood on my thoughts of Brazil's gameplay. Getting players to interchange positions, dragging the ball out wide and attempted wonderstrikes on goal is feeding into a rearguards hands. The whole point of two backs of eight is to flood the middle of the pitch; that is where the goalmouth is, giving technical sides little room to work with. The wearing down process is done by players going out of position, then back in whenever possession is lost. Add to England's strength of being physical these technical fancy dan types don't like being tackled and get frustrated as a result. Since England hung in there they were able to progress in the 2nd half and try to take the game from Brazil.

It's not in the DNA for English players to play slow build up, short ball passing every verse end. All England really to do is teach centre backs how to play a decent pass, midfielders and supporting wing back to play diamond passing football and jobs a good one.

[Alviro Patterson]

I'm no expert when it comes to tactics in football, however England look like they struggle to retain the ball and lack the technical ability of their European counterparts. You look at Italy, Germany or Spain and they look comfortable on the ball, work the opposition and create opportunities. English players as a whole rely on grit and (as mentioned earlier by SP) hoping that one of the many through balls that they try out work.

Maybe it's the coaching at a younger level or the lack of English players getting experience in foreign leagues but when England come across a side that is technically better the them they get found out and all the "British grit" is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Another possible reason could be that a lot of other world sides play as a unit and work for each other, sometimes with England it seems like they're trying for personal glory instead of the team.

Technical coaching is one main benefit overseas clubs get but they also benefit from temperate climates, for example Glenn Hoddle's former academy in Jerez gets 300 days of sunshine per year where as clubs in England during winter either train indoors, on 4G surfaces or on dodgy pitches. Sam Allardyce made an excellent suggestion of youth team players training throughout the summer and having a winter break.

Good old British Grit worked for Bradford City in the League Cup, lost count on the number of times Arsenal and Aston Villa didn't like a bit of firm tackling or lost their frustration when trying to regain possession.

[Chris de Burgh]

I'm no expert when it comes to tactics in football, however England look like they struggle to retain the ball and lack the technical ability of their European counterparts. You look at Italy, Germany or Spain and they look comfortable on the ball, work the opposition and create opportunities. English players as a whole rely on grit and (as mentioned earlier by SP) hoping that one of the many through balls that they try out work.

Maybe it's the coaching at a younger level or the lack of English players getting experience in foreign leagues but when England come across a side that is technically better the them they get found out and all the "British grit" is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Another possible reason could be that a lot of other world sides play as a unit and work for each other, sometimes with England it seems like they're trying for personal glory instead of the team.

Technical coaching is one main benefit overseas clubs get but they also benefit from temperate climates, for example Glenn Hoddle's former academy in Jerez gets 300 days of sunshine per year where as clubs in England during winter either train indoors, on 4G surfaces or on dodgy pitches. Sam Allardyce made an excellent suggestion of youth team players training throughout the summer and having a winter break.

Good old British Grit worked for Bradford City in the League Cup, lost count on the number of times Arsenal and Aston Villa didn't like a bit of firm tackling or lost their frustration when trying to regain possession.

Thanks for reminding me. I'd almost forgotten Arsenal losing to Bradford

[Alviro Patterson]

Thanks for reminding me. I'd almost forgotten Arsenal losing to Bradford

Seems like an age away and still don't think it really happened.

Would like to see Roy Hodgson take a punt on Big James Hanson, his aerial presence and off ball ability would trouble most international defences.

[sussexpob]

Technical coaching is one main benefit overseas clubs get but they also benefit from temperate climates, for example Glenn Hoddle's former academy in Jerez gets 300 days of sunshine per year where as clubs in England during winter either train indoors, on 4G surfaces or on dodgy pitches. Sam Allardyce made an excellent suggestion of youth team players training throughout the summer and having a winter break

Maradona grew up in Villa Fiortino, one of Argentina's most economically destitue areas... he was a master of ball control despite never owning a decent football or having any facilities to learn the game. Brazilians typically play on basketball courts with a futebol de salao ball, which is both heavier and doesnt bounce, because of lack of money. Due to cuts in municipal funding for sport and the popularity of basketball, Spanish facilities are also now built for cages that are used for basketball and football.... it rains more in Holland than the UK, its colder in Central Germany.... they all dont have a problem... its not an excuse at all!!

[SaintPowelly]

Would like to see Roy Hodgson take a punt on Big James Hanson, his aerial presence and off ball ability would trouble most international defences.

If Rickie Lambert can't get a game, he has NO hope.

Sam Allardyce made an excellent suggestion of youth team players training throughout the summer and having a winter break.

Thats an awful suggestion, all that would do is stop youngsters playing at the top level because they wouldn't be ready to step in at a moments notice.

[Alviro Patterson]

Technical coaching is one main benefit overseas clubs get but they also benefit from temperate climates, for example Glenn Hoddle's former academy in Jerez gets 300 days of sunshine per year where as clubs in England during winter either train indoors, on 4G surfaces or on dodgy pitches. Sam Allardyce made an excellent suggestion of youth team players training throughout the summer and having a winter break

Maradona grew up in Villa Fiortino, one of Argentina's most economically destitue areas... he was a master of ball control despite never owning a decent football or having any facilities to learn the game. Brazilians typically play on basketball courts with a futebol de salao ball, which is both heavier and doesnt bounce, because of lack of money. Due to cuts in municipal funding for sport and the popularity of basketball, Spanish facilities are also now built for cages that are used for basketball and football.... it rains more in Holland than the UK, its colder in Central Germany.... they all dont have a problem... its not an excuse at all!!

Using an all time great and his difficult upbringing is not a good benchmark to use, nor switching nations for each comparison.

Would like to see Roy Hodgson take a punt on Big James Hanson, his aerial presence and off ball ability would trouble most international defences.

If Rickie Lambert can't get a game, he has NO hope.

Was said in jest, 80,000+ England fans chanting "He used to work at the co-op" is a bit far fetched.

Sam Allardyce made an excellent suggestion of youth team players training throughout the summer and having a winter break.

Thats an awful suggestion, all that would do is stop youngsters playing at the top level because they wouldn't be ready to step in at a moments notice.

In terms of available training time and youth tournaments are played in the summer I think it has it's merits, not often under 19s are playing Premier League football. Only downfall is trying to combine GSCE/A level exams with football training.

[Alviro Patterson]

Ukraine beat Montenegro 4-0 earlier tonight, good news from an England perspective who are 2pts behind Montenegro with a game in hand. However Ukraine are 1pt behind England and have yet to play San Marino.

[Aidan11]

Very little interest in England v Scotland tonight.

I can remember the games in the 70s. End of season Home Internationals but there was no resting players in those days. Strongest possible squads were put out. Players gave it 100%. Mind you so did the fans afterwards.

[Gingerfinch]

Scotland are one up. I sense a return of rich1uk if Scotland win this

[st_brendy]

So emotional. Rickie!!!

[Alviro Patterson]

Danny Welbeck, so under-rated.

[Durhamfootman]

saw the highlights.

ball of the night was from cleverley, to put walcott through for the goal

ponce of the night was snodgrass for the bafta nominated collapse in a heap on the edge of the area..... didn't take long for this seasons rubbish to start!

I liked Baines tonight. Cahill and Jags looked off the pace, but I'm sure that will change once the season starts

England did, at least, try to play passing football, from pretty much everywhere.

[mikesiva]

Cahill and Jagielka looked shaky...England missing Rio at the back.