How Good Is Timothy Bresnan?

[meninblue]

I don't know why Broad is known as England's best ODI bowler. Even if you go back 5 years he isn't the best.

Last two years
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

From the period when two new balls were introduced 1 Oct 2011
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling


If we look at the ICC rankings Finn is at number 4 and Anderson at number 5. Broad is at 33.

As for bowling at the death and in the powerplays lots of bowlers do and many of them have an economy of under 5.00.

Actually those bowlers who bowl in death over should have more wickets in career as they are more likely to bowl to tailenders.

[Alviro Patterson]

Spot on D/L, since Bresnan made his ODI debut in 2006 the format has gone through quite a few rule changes.

It's got harder for bowlers. Wouldn't that help people who have been around for longer?

In ODIs, it's a bit of a bald men and comb scenario. No one's got anything to brag about.

Since that ODI series against Sri Lanka, Bresnan didn't play again for England until 2009. The only bowler who has been around longer than Bresnan is Jimmy Anderson.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Actually those bowlers who bowl in death over should have more wickets in career as they are more likely to bowl to tailenders.

True, and they get the new ball. All the England pace bowlers bowl the same kinds of overs. I thought Jimmy bowled fewer at the end, but that seems to be a false impression. Probably only Finn has made that much of a good job of it. However, we often seem to get a good start.

[Alviro Patterson]

Going from 2010 in ODIs against top eight sides. These are the econs. These leave out Bresnan's early travails....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling.

They also take no account of who bowled in power plays and at the death. This is simply another flawed set of statistics used to try to make a point.

Not a truer word said D/L.

Bresnan bowls the majority of his overs inside the Powerplays and is often designated to do so, often when the opposition are looking to boost their scoring rate. Naturally the percentage shots and thick edges work in the batsmens favour, hence Bresnan's average and economy rate is a tad higher.

It's interesting that the amount of dross Jade Dernbach has bowled his economy rate and average are merely 0.8 and 10.15 higher than that of Bresnan.

[Arthur Crabtree]

They all bowl in the PPs and in the last ten out of the main pace bowlers! They rotate the new ball bowlers at the end...

[Arthur Crabtree]

I'm beginning to think Bresnan bowls from both ends towards the end of the innings.

[KipperJohn]

I don't think anybody is doubting Bresnan's commitment - on any type of surface - or his value as a team player and adapting to each situation, as far as he is able, across all formats of the game.

That's not the issue - the simple question asked on this thread is how good is he. It's staring me in the face as I type.

I've given my opinion earlier and am sticking to it - unless there is a significant up or down turn in his international performances over time.

As for being the first name on the team sheet in a particular situation - I sincerely hope the coach and captain go about their business a bit better than that.

[Slipstream]

I don't know why Broad is known as England's best ODI bowler. Even if you go back 5 years he isn't the best.

Last two years
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

From the period when two new balls were introduced 1 Oct 2011
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling


If we look at the ICC rankings Finn is at number 4 and Anderson at number 5. Broad is at 33.

As for bowling at the death and in the powerplays lots of bowlers do and many of them have an economy of under 5.00.

Very interesting reading Slipstream, especially seeing Bresnan so high in the stats column.

He's done better than Broad yet most people sees Broad as England's best, especially the commentators.

I don't think we should have set death bowlers and all the fast bowlers should take turns to get better at it. Last 4 overs with one over for each fast bowler. They should all want to bowl at that stage to get easy wickets.

[Arthur Crabtree]

You'll never get Bresnan supporters to take notice of the stats slipstream. ;)

It does depend where you start from. In my stats, from 2010, Broad does a bit better. But neither does well.

I see Broad and Bres as pretty similar in ODIs these days. Broad used to do a bit better, but less so recently. I suspect he takes more wickets in the first ten.

Interesting points.

[Arthur Crabtree]

We keep crossing over from ODIs to Tests here. If we look at Broad v Bresnan, it's quite different in each form.

[Slipstream]

Wickets taken by batting order in ODIs (in no particular order)

1-3 ~~ 4-7 ~~ 8-11

46.9% ~ 33.5% ~ 19.6% - Anderson
45.5% ~ 38.2% ~ 16.4% - Broad
41.7% ~ 39.8% ~ 18.5% - Bresnan
45.8% ~ 35.6% ~ 18.6% - Finn

44.7% ~ 28.9% ~ 26.4% - Gough
34.9% ~ 39.1% ~ 26.0% - Flintoff

Our current bowlers take roughly the same percentage of number 8-11s.

[Arthur Crabtree]

So similar, but RPO in taking those is pretty crucial. And of course, this doesn't show if someone is taking fewer wickets generally.

[Arthur Crabtree]

These are the strike rates (since 2000 for Freddie and Goughie) against top eight sides.

Broad 32
Anderson 34
Flintoff 34
Finn 35
Gough 39 (this was towards the end of his career)
Bresnan 41

So if Broad is taking his wicket nine balls faster than Bresnan, that is quite significant, and means his % at each level of the order probably has more impact.

[Alviro Patterson]

Those figures don't take in the context of the game, starting how many times has Broad played in the same game with Bresnan?

Broad played 47 ODIs between September 2006 and April 2009, taking 71 wickets with 2x 4-fers and 1 5-fer.
In that period Bresnan played zero ODIs.

[meninblue]

SR is crucial aspect in a 50 over match.In a shortened match due to rain it would matter more impact and hence becomes more crucial.Offcourse there has to be balance between SR and Economy rate. Broad,Jimmy and Finn have a good combo of SR and eco rate over whole career.But then these are after all statistics and Statistics are totally irrelevant .What matters is how well a cricketer has dressed, how well he ties the bowling shoes laces, how well he gives the impression that he is trying to take a wicket or keep runs down, how much his bowling depends on good luck and bad luck