Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

[Gingerfinch]

Shouting at a player during a game for bad fielding like Prior seems to have done is something a captain and/or coach might have a word about. On the other hand, texting an opposition captain and allegedly calling your own captain a .... is a different kettle of fish.

Both are indeed different incident of spoiling team spirit.

But in one incident a group of England players spoiled team spirit (Bullying, bowler and keeper shouting at fielders) whenever such fielding lapses happened and even in dressing room. What is more dangerous to team spirit ? One individual sending one text sms against his player or a group of 4 or more individuals bullying the team players.

My opinion is that everyone did wrong to varying degrees but only one was punished, which is not at all fair.

I'm not convinced there was bullying, tbh. Having to apologise for dropping a catch made me laugh, but that's not bullying. As for Prior shouting at Trott. Uncalled for really, and I hope he apologised afterwards, but this is pro sport not village cricket, where the emphasis can be on 'team spirit' and encouragement. You will know, things get said in the heat of the moment when your're on the field.

The KP textgate, if true, is a lot more serious in my opinion. You just don't do it.

[meninblue]

Shouting at a player during a game for bad fielding like Prior seems to have done is something a captain and/or coach might have a word about. On the other hand, texting an opposition captain and allegedly calling your own captain a .... is a different kettle of fish.

Both are indeed different incident of spoiling team spirit.

But in one incident a group of England players spoiled team spirit (Bullying, bowler and keeper shouting at fielders) whenever such fielding lapses happened and even in dressing room. What is more dangerous to team spirit ? One individual sending one text sms against his player or a group of 4 or more individuals bullying the team players.

My opinion is that everyone did wrong to varying degrees but only one was punished, which is not at all fair.

I'm not convinced there was bullying, tbh. Having to apologise for dropping a catch made me laugh, but that's not bullying. As for Prior shouting at Trott. Uncalled for really, and I hope he apologised afterwards, but this is pro sport not village cricket, where the emphasis can be on 'team spirit' and encouragement. You will know, things get said in the heat of the moment when your're on the field.

The KP textgate, if true, is a lot more serious in my opinion. You just don't do it.

Why Prior and gang of bowlers can get away with it by apologizing in private for every rubbish sentences they uttered to fielders. But KP has to apologize in public and has to get sacked for it.

The sentence used during such incidents were bad and i found it unnecessary for team culture even at professional level. You do not talk like that with team mates using those words. Imagine KP and batters shouting foul words at bowlers for bowling "No ball", wide, full toss, four, six etc and even when bowlers dropped catches. If everyone starts doing this then just think what level on field cricket will stoop to. KP also said that when Indian payers came to know this they said do you guys really talk like that amongst your group. I do not agree with the view that this is a professional environment so people can use whatever foul language they want. Once okay, some player might get away with it but if group of players do that on regular basis then it indeed is bullying rather than one off incident. I also say that SMS incident too was bad.

[Gingerfinch]

Shouting at a player during a game for bad fielding like Prior seems to have done is something a captain and/or coach might have a word about. On the other hand, texting an opposition captain and allegedly calling your own captain a .... is a different kettle of fish.

Both are indeed different incident of spoiling team spirit.

But in one incident a group of England players spoiled team spirit (Bullying, bowler and keeper shouting at fielders) whenever such fielding lapses happened and even in dressing room. What is more dangerous to team spirit ? One individual sending one text sms against his player or a group of 4 or more individuals bullying the team players.

My opinion is that everyone did wrong to varying degrees but only one was punished, which is not at all fair.

I'm not convinced there was bullying, tbh. Having to apologise for dropping a catch made me laugh, but that's not bullying. As for Prior shouting at Trott. Uncalled for really, and I hope he apologised afterwards, but this is pro sport not village cricket, where the emphasis can be on 'team spirit' and encouragement. You will know, things get said in the heat of the moment when your're on the field.

The KP textgate, if true, is a lot more serious in my opinion. You just don't do it.

Why Prior and gang of bowlers can get away with it by apologizing in private for every rubbish sentences they uttered to fielders. But KP has to apologize in public and has to get sacked for it.

The sentence used during such incidents were bad and i found it unnecessary for team culture even at professional level. You do not talk like that with team mates using those words. Imagine KP and batters shouting foul words at bowlers for bowling "No ball", wide, full toss, four, six etc and even when bowlers dropped catches. If everyone starts doing this then just think what level on field cricket will stoop to. KP also said that when Indian payers came to know this they said do you guys really talk like that amongst your group. I do not agree with the view that this is a professional environment so people can use whatever foul language they want. Once okay, some player might get away with it but if group of players do that on regular basis then it indeed is bullying rather than one off incident. I also say that SMS incident too was bad.

I only know one incident regarding Prior. He may have been the sort of keeper who let rip now and again, I don't know? If the bowlers were making the fielders say sorry for dropped catches, then I would assume the captain was ok with it? I personally don't agree with HAVING to apologise, as they no doubt would have anyway. That's why it makes no sense to me. The difference is, these are incidents on the field of play, which is like a playing in a world where the rules are different. Look at roy keane, who recently brought a book out. He'd shout all sorts at his players on the field, but once he slagged off some in the press, he was done for.

[meninblue]

Shouting at a player during a game for bad fielding like Prior seems to have done is something a captain and/or coach might have a word about. On the other hand, texting an opposition captain and allegedly calling your own captain a .... is a different kettle of fish.

Both are indeed different incident of spoiling team spirit.

But in one incident a group of England players spoiled team spirit (Bullying, bowler and keeper shouting at fielders) whenever such fielding lapses happened and even in dressing room. What is more dangerous to team spirit ? One individual sending one text sms against his player or a group of 4 or more individuals bullying the team players.

My opinion is that everyone did wrong to varying degrees but only one was punished, which is not at all fair.

I'm not convinced there was bullying, tbh. Having to apologise for dropping a catch made me laugh, but that's not bullying. As for Prior shouting at Trott. Uncalled for really, and I hope he apologised afterwards, but this is pro sport not village cricket, where the emphasis can be on 'team spirit' and encouragement. You will know, things get said in the heat of the moment when your're on the field.

The KP textgate, if true, is a lot more serious in my opinion. You just don't do it.

Why Prior and gang of bowlers can get away with it by apologizing in private for every rubbish sentences they uttered to fielders. But KP has to apologize in public and has to get sacked for it.

The sentence used during such incidents were bad and i found it unnecessary for team culture even at professional level. You do not talk like that with team mates using those words. Imagine KP and batters shouting foul words at bowlers for bowling "No ball", wide, full toss, four, six etc and even when bowlers dropped catches. If everyone starts doing this then just think what level on field cricket will stoop to. KP also said that when Indian payers came to know this they said do you guys really talk like that amongst your group. I do not agree with the view that this is a professional environment so people can use whatever foul language they want. Once okay, some player might get away with it but if group of players do that on regular basis then it indeed is bullying rather than one off incident. I also say that SMS incident too was bad.

I only know one incident regarding Prior. He may have been the sort of keeper who let rip now and again, I don't know? If the bowlers were making the fielders say sorry for dropped catches, then I would assume the captain was ok with it? I personally don't agree with HAVING to apologise, as they no doubt would have anyway. That's why it makes no sense to me. The difference is, these are incidents on the field of play, which is like a playing in a world where the rules are different. Look at roy keane, who recently brought a book out. He'd shout all sorts at his players on the field, but once he slagged off some in the press, he was done for.

In case the captain is also okay with such use of words and incidents then he also is wrong imo. Also, because captain accepts some wrong deed then i would not say that wrong deed becomes a right deed. If apology is not required then why ECB insisted on apology from KP but not from other players. I am not saying KP is a saint, but neither were others. Action should have been taken against everyone rather than just KP is what all i am saying. And if these SMS and bullying culture is acceptable to team spirit then do not take action against everyone. Let everyone free. At most such inaction can be bad but at least fair to everyone.

[Gingerfinch]

If the captain and coach adhered to a bit of shouting and formal apologies to bowlers then it's a little difficult for the said players to have action taken against them. If they disagreed then they should have stamped it out. Either way, it's not the same as the infamous textgate.

I will say one thing for KP. If a couple of the England players were in on the fake twitter account, then that like the textgate, is far more serious, and wrong.

It's all hearsay anyway. None of us know exactly what went on.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I thought that KP was told they weren't going to pick him for the 20/20 World Cup and the ODIs but didn't say anything about Tests. He decided that they probably wouldn't pick him for Tests either and wanted to manage his own time in the IPL so he decided to cancel his central contract. I think the ECB picked a bad time to get rid of him because people associate his end to be because England lost 0-5. They should have said they are giving him a rest to sort out his knee instead. Waited until the summer and then sorted out all the things they were unhappy with and given him a final warning. Also that he would have to get cc runs. He says he doesn't know why they sacked him. We don't know either. Then again the selectors never given a reason why anyone is dropped.

They said they were going to move on from him from all cricket. And they did give a reason, to the public anyway. I assume selectors normally tell a player why he is dropped; it would be poor management not to. Besides, this was hardly normal dropping. An employee would expect to be told why he has been sacked. I guess KP is saying he wasn't given a reason in his meeting.

[Arthur Crabtree]

If the captain and coach adhered to a bit of shouting and formal apologies to bowlers then it's a little difficult for the said players to have action taken against them. If they disagreed then they should have stamped it out. Either way, it's not the same as the infamous textgate.

I will say one thing for KP. If a couple of the England players were in on the fake twitter account, then that like the textgate, is far more serious, and wrong.

It's all hearsay anyway. None of us know exactly what went on.

We don't know what the texts say, so it's hard to know how serious they are. KP has sworn that he didn't given tactical info, and he says he didn't call Strauss a doos. What we know about this comes from the ECB who ran an anti KP campaign throughout the summer of 2012 because of contract disagreements.

Is it hearsay if we are hearing from one of the participants?

[Gingerfinch]

If the captain and coach adhered to a bit of shouting and formal apologies to bowlers then it's a little difficult for the said players to have action taken against them. If they disagreed then they should have stamped it out. Either way, it's not the same as the infamous textgate.

I will say one thing for KP. If a couple of the England players were in on the fake twitter account, then that like the textgate, is far more serious, and wrong.

It's all hearsay anyway. None of us know exactly what went on.

We don't know what the texts say, so it's hard to know how serious they are. KP has sworn that he didn't given tactical info, and he says he didn't call Strauss a doos. What we know about this comes from the ECB who ran an anti KP campaign throughout the summer of 2012 because of contract disagreements.

Is it hearsay if we are hearing from one of the participants?

Well, it's just one person's side of the story. Nobody know's what has been said be it by text message, in the dressing room, or on the field. If KP had called Strauss a doos, then surely you would agree that action had to be taken? As it was, there seems to have been a few incidents that led to KP's sacking.

I still think that if KP had been scoring plenty of runs then he might still be playing. A case of 'we'll put up with you as long as your scoring runs'.

[Aidan11]

This was on HIGNFY tonight.

Not the thread, but the book.

It was their third item which I suppose highlights it's importance given the relatively minor popularity of cricket in the country (in comparison to other sports).

I voted UKIP.

Oh, wrong divisive comment,

Won't be 800 posts by midnight.



I suppose I could have spread these out.

I had a feeling HIGNFY would give it a mention.


Next - off to 8 out of 10 Cats.

Maybe Cats isn't the word Strauss would use.

[Aidan11]

Disappointed that it didn't reach 800.

Looks like it fizzled out after I left it.

Mind it was Friday night.

[meninblue]

It's all hearsay anyway. None of us know exactly what went on.

That is true. As far as they go to court and provide evidences , everything will be taken as hearsay, from both the parties.

But what we do know is that England cricket is in mess in various aspects (selection/performance/player issues/injury managenent/biased attitude). We do not need evidence for that. The ECB must be accountable for this mess by being accountable and responsible and a change in management is the need to bring back England international cricket to where it needs to be being a major cricketing nation. Such mis-management looks fit only for PCB.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Arthur, if they left him out for his attitude it is fair (only if other players were also given same punishment) because i do feel that a player should not be texting something wrong about his team player or captain when the series is happening against the players whom he is messaging. Having said that, Prior abusing Trott and juniors for fielding lapses and forcing to apologize was a more severe incident against team spirit. Bullying from other seniors (Broad, Swann and Jimmy) was also more severe than that text message. Okay KP acted against team spirit, but Prior/Jimmy/Broad and Swann did worse things against team spirit. Why were they spared. Why only KP was chosen as a culprit for spoiling team spirit when there were clearly few others who had done more bad.

Well, many feel that the sacking was purely the work of Flower. Downton had been in the job for five minutes, and had been out of the game, and can't have had time to develop a personal agenda. Cook comes across as quite a submissive figure, rather than the man of steel that Moores suggests. Some feel that KP was sacked to deflect attention away from the role of the captain and the coach in a 5-0 defeat. It was KP who was poisoning the well, and once he went, all would be fine again. These are possibilities, but we don't know. Personally I think that while many have contributed to the problem, the major culpability lay with Flower's management methods, and the best way forward would have been to have sacked him (and Cook who is a poor captain).

[Arthur Crabtree]

Well, it's just one person's side of the story. Nobody know's what has been said be it by text message, in the dressing room, or on the field. If KP had called Strauss a doos, then surely you would agree that action had to be taken? As it was, there seems to have been a few incidents that led to KP's sacking.

I still think that if KP had been scoring plenty of runs then he might still be playing. A case of 'we'll put up with you as long as your scoring runs'.

No one seems to have seen the texts apart from the SA team. They said at the time that there was no tactical info in them, and they backtracked a bit after they saw what happened to KP; if Smith didn't like him because of KP being critical of SA society, it was a particularly nasty revenge. But I think they were shocked by they way the ECB acted, and were mainly trying to unbalance the England side (and the hell with the collateral damage). KP and Smith are friends now.

If KP was scoring runs, he may well be still in the team. But no one was regularly scoring runs (he at least scored a ton in the back to back Ashes, and easily outscored Cook). In my view, the poison in the well was Flower. Probably burn out was an issue, and possibly the ECB's arranging of back to back Ashes.

[rich1uk]

this is the thing that is annoying me atm , I don't see how many people could be happy with the way the ECB has handled the last couple of years , and I am not defending KP here , he has contributed in a big way to the problems, but their man management, PR and general head in the sands attitude has been stunningly inept

and here we are arguing about what KP might have called strauss in a text message

[meninblue]

Arthur, if they left him out for his attitude it is fair (only if other players were also given same punishment) because i do feel that a player should not be texting something wrong about his team player or captain when the series is happening against the players whom he is messaging. Having said that, Prior abusing Trott and juniors for fielding lapses and forcing to apologize was a more severe incident against team spirit. Bullying from other seniors (Broad, Swann and Jimmy) was also more severe than that text message. Okay KP acted against team spirit, but Prior/Jimmy/Broad and Swann did worse things against team spirit. Why were they spared. Why only KP was chosen as a culprit for spoiling team spirit when there were clearly few others who had done more bad.

Well, many feel that the sacking was purely the work of Flower. Downton had been in the job for five minutes, and had been out of the game, and can't have had time to develop a personal agenda. Cook comes across as quite a submissive figure, rather than the man of steel that Moores suggests. Some feel that KP was sacked to deflect attention away from the role of the captain and the coach in a 5-0 defeat. It was KP who was poisoning the well, and once he went, all would be fine again. These are possibilities, but we don't know. Personally I think that while many have contributed to the problem, the major culpability lay with Flower's management methods, and the best way forward would have been to have sacked him (and Cook who is a poor captain).

Arthur, there is no doubt in my mind that the ECB management has failed. Off course i agree that only one problem cannot lead to such a huge mess. Like you say it has to be a combination of errors in many aspects. Scapegoat will only give you time and that time too has passed with abd results versus SriLanka and India ODI series. How long the cricket team survive under the scapegoat tactics. And it is just not ECB, our very own BCCI is almost similar and so are other cricket boards with issues of their own cricketing systems and players, except that our board is atleast good in revenue generation.