Cook Must Go. NOW! (As test captain)

[Aidan11]

Today is actually Alastair Cook's Birthday.

[#Brown]

Quite a variation in replies there, I'll try and respond to the more pertinent points. You're quite right though Rich, I shouldn't just throw in a semi-controversial post and run away. What I would question, is my opinion being less valid because of the number of times I've posted. I'm a regular reader, but often find myself without the time to respond - not great I know, but hooray for Christmas breaks.

Additionally, I wasn't trying to lecture anyone, but my post was meant to be read with the feeling of 'is this what we've become?' Probably resulting from the frustration of what it's like to be an English cricket fan these days. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive with a sense of humour failure, but I don't think mods in particular should be posting nonsense about sinisterly making people disappear. Said in jest I know, but nonsense nonetheless, and the kind of thing that makes you question the point of visiting the site.

Returning to the more important subject of Cook...I referred to it as a dream job, because what cricketer doesn't dream of captaining a World Cup, or Ashes (if you're from the relevant parts of the world) side? Now of course you're right, he needed to go...but his feelings must be considered. They should have asked him to step aside in the summer, the timing, public revelry and vilification of him seems cruel and unnecessarily harmful. Regardless of any personal like/dislike (people regularly refer to his social class, which confuses me), is it best for him or England that he is vilified in this way? Will that help him when he returns next year? Again, he was only asked to do a job (again, one he did reasonably successfully for some time), and he had to believe he was capable of doing it. MS, you speak of him coming to symbolise this evil ECB empire, but was this his design or choosing?

I'm hoping it's obvious that a happy and motivated Cook is a huge asset for England, but we're almost in danger of hounding a second world-class bat out of the side, by simply putting too much pressure on him. I know many will now accuse me of being soft and talking rubbish...but hey ho, just my opinion.

Merry Christmas all.

[Aidan11]

Hash, your second paragraph refers to my post of making Cook disappear.

As you say this is said in jest. Of course it is. I post on a few message boards and those who know my style know that I have a daft sense of humour. Childish? Maybe but life is too short to be serious. Your point about whether a mod should be saying things like this - well as a mod I am aware of my responsibilities but no rules have been broken on here. You should see some of the stuff I post on other MBs where I'm not a mod. Or maybe it's best you don't.

[hopeforthebest]

Most want Cook back playing well in test games but not as captain in which he has a very poor record.

28 games 12 won, and only 6 wins in the last 17 games. His record in tests is almost as bad as in ODI games due to his highly conservative approach. Three of his wins were against Bangladesh in 2010.

[meninblue]

Just going through some of the posts in this thread, and it reads like a group of angry entitled children. Maybe one day some of you could lose dream jobs at awful times, and watch as someone else publicly puts up the bunting.

Yes, he did have to go. But joyous celebrations, really? Does he deserve that? You're acting like he performed poorly on purpose, and had no interest in seeing England win. He was asked to do a job (one he did reasonably successfully for some time), and surely tried his best. A professional athlete must have confidence in their own ability in order to succeed, so expecting him to quit is, at best, naive.

It's daft to see those celebrating, also now calling for Pietersen to return...as if Cook was keeping him out of the team...Like they couldn't play together! The decision was not his, in the same way it's not Morgan's.

This used to be a reasonable forum for discussion...now seems to be a place for divisive angry rants and cheerleading (quite representative of English cricket at the moment), so thought I'd contribute a rant myself before leaving. I suggest some of you consider your attitudes, and invest some time in growing up.

Even Sachin was not spared here or outside forums in face to face discussions with my local friends from what i remember , so can we expect relatively lesser performing batters like Cook or any other cricketer to be spared. It is just not done purposely on forums, but a common thinking pattern. Expectations of most spectators are huge and even the best cricketers have not fulfilled those . It is common that even the best have been laughed at. Dance smiley maybe, but i doubt anyone actually jumped up and down celebrating Cook's removal from ODI captaincy. And there is no point painting everyone with same brush.

At one point of time i thought Cook and Michael Clarke were the only two batters who would beat some of Sachin's records. Yes, with hindsight i made mistake of over-rating them but certainly Cook is not as bad in tests as he is made to look. Career Test average of 46 overall as opener is better than most test batters around the worst who have played this format. In ODI yes, he needed to go and there is nothing wrong if fans wanted him to be dropped from ODI team.

[Making_Splinters]

Quite a variation in replies there, I'll try and respond to the more pertinent points. You're quite right though Rich, I shouldn't just throw in a semi-controversial post and run away. What I would question, is my opinion being less valid because of the number of times I've posted. I'm a regular reader, but often find myself without the time to respond - not great I know, but hooray for Christmas breaks.

Additionally, I wasn't trying to lecture anyone, but my post was meant to be read with the feeling of 'is this what we've become?' Probably resulting from the frustration of what it's like to be an English cricket fan these days. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive with a sense of humour failure, but I don't think mods in particular should be posting nonsense about sinisterly making people disappear. Said in jest I know, but nonsense nonetheless, and the kind of thing that makes you question the point of visiting the site.

Returning to the more important subject of Cook...I referred to it as a dream job, because what cricketer doesn't dream of captaining a World Cup, or Ashes (if you're from the relevant parts of the world) side? Now of course you're right, he needed to go...but his feelings must be considered. They should have asked him to step aside in the summer, the timing, public revelry and vilification of him seems cruel and unnecessarily harmful. Regardless of any personal like/dislike (people regularly refer to his social class, which confuses me), is it best for him or England that he is vilified in this way? Will that help him when he returns next year? Again, he was only asked to do a job (again, one he did reasonably successfully for some time), and he had to believe he was capable of doing it. MS, you speak of him coming to symbolise this evil ECB empire, but was this his design or choosing?

I'm hoping it's obvious that a happy and motivated Cook is a huge asset for England, but we're almost in danger of hounding a second world-class bat out of the side, by simply putting too much pressure on him. I know many will now accuse me of being soft and talking rubbish...but hey ho, just my opinion.

Merry Christmas all.

Whether or not Cook was a complicit partner in the state of affairs that developed is largely irrelevant.

[#Brown]

Quite a stupid thing to say. Have you ever been blamed for something you did not do?

[Making_Splinters]

Quite a stupid thing to say. Have you ever been blamed for something you did not do?

I did not blame Cook for anything, simply stated that he ended up being the embodiment of the wider problems within the ECB.

[#Brown]

But it is still relevant because there are many who do blame him. Indeed if he symbolised the tyrannical ecb, then rejoicing in his dismissal is justified... Wasn't that your point?

[rich1uk]

I think the key point you seem to be missing here brown is that rather that an attack on cook and being happy about his personal situation being dismissed is that most people seemed to be worried about what the situation was doing to him , what impact it was having on his confidence and whether there was a risk of him burning out so badly that we lost him from tests as well

as I said previously one of the things I was most happy about regarding this decision is that it not only improves our ODI side but it also is what I think is best for cook as a test cricketer, test captain and by extension our test team

just to come back to a point you made earlier about losing his dream job and how we would have felt , well I've had a couple of occasions where I didn't get a job I really wanted, once because I was deemed to not have the relevant skills for the job, the other because I failed to impress at an interview. I wasn't just given the jobs despite how well I was doing elsewhere.

just to emphasise , people were not celebrating cook's misfortune, rather that the best decision had been made for English cricket, both in tests and ODIs

[Making_Splinters]

But it is still relevant because there are many who do blame him. Indeed if he symbolised the tyrannical ecb, then rejoicing in his dismissal is justified... Wasn't that your point?

Cook's continued tenure as ODI captain was symptomatic of what the ECB had become under Flower and then under Downton. Would you blame Cook for not scoring runs? It's a very odd choice of word to use. The blame for where things ended up lies at the feet of Downton and Moores, Cook was their tool.

Cook gave some very odd press conferances over the summer, but deep down he wanted to do the best for the team. Blame isn't the word to use, Cook needed to go for the good of the side. I'm pleased to see the first cracks in the dogma above all approach the ECB have preached since the end of the Ashes.

I'll be delighted when Moores, Downton, Clarke and Flower are excised from English cricket. They are the cancer that needs removing.

[#Brown]

I think the key point you seem to be missing here brown is that rather that an attack on cook and being happy about his personal situation being dismissed is that most people seemed to be worried about what the situation was doing to him , what impact it was having on his confidence and whether there was a risk of him burning out so badly that we lost him from tests as well

as I said previously one of the things I was most happy about regarding this decision is that it not only improves our ODI side but it also is what I think is best for cook as a test cricketer, test captain and by extension our test team

just to come back to a point you made earlier about losing his dream job and how we would have felt , well I've had a couple of occasions where I didn't get a job I really wanted, once because I was deemed to not have the relevant skills for the job, the other because I failed to impress at an interview. I wasn't just given the jobs despite how well I was doing elsewhere.

just to emphasise , people were not celebrating cook's misfortune, rather that the best decision had been made for English cricket, both in tests and ODIs

From reading this rich, I think we largely agree. I also think this dismissal is to the benefit of both the ODI an test sides. My frustration mostly results from the current perception of Cook in social and wider media, and particularly how bad it could get. I don't think that is good for English cricket. I came to this site for the first time in a while and expected more...and acted a little childish myself.

[rich1uk]

I think the key point you seem to be missing here brown is that rather that an attack on cook and being happy about his personal situation being dismissed is that most people seemed to be worried about what the situation was doing to him , what impact it was having on his confidence and whether there was a risk of him burning out so badly that we lost him from tests as well

as I said previously one of the things I was most happy about regarding this decision is that it not only improves our ODI side but it also is what I think is best for cook as a test cricketer, test captain and by extension our test team

just to come back to a point you made earlier about losing his dream job and how we would have felt , well I've had a couple of occasions where I didn't get a job I really wanted, once because I was deemed to not have the relevant skills for the job, the other because I failed to impress at an interview. I wasn't just given the jobs despite how well I was doing elsewhere.

just to emphasise , people were not celebrating cook's misfortune, rather that the best decision had been made for English cricket, both in tests and ODIs

From reading this rich, I think we largely agree. I also think this dismissal is to the benefit of both the ODI an test sides. My frustration mostly results from the current perception of Cook in social and wider media, and particularly how bad it could get. I don't think that is good for English cricket. I came to this site for the first time in a while and expected more...and acted a little childish myself.

there was no doubt an element of frustration in some posts and people, myself included, were making light of the situation, this site gets a bit stir crazy when there isn't a lot of cricket happening, but that's one of the things I actually like about this site and the community

there are a few what I would call inside jokes, if that's the right term, that get perpetuated through discussions and sometimes if you don't know the background or aren't familiar with the background they might come across the wrong way

[#Brown]

But it is still relevant because there are many who do blame him. Indeed if he symbolised the tyrannical ecb, then rejoicing in his dismissal is justified... Wasn't that your point?

Cook's continued tenure as ODI captain was symptomatic of what the ECB had become under Flower and then under Downton. Would you blame Cook for not scoring runs? It's a very odd choice of word to use. The blame for where things ended up lies at the feet of Downton and Moores, Cook was their tool.

Cook gave some very odd press conferances over the summer, but deep down he wanted to do the best for the team. Blame isn't the word to use, Cook needed to go for the good of the side. I'm pleased to see the first cracks in the dogma above all approach the ECB have preached since the end of the Ashes.

I'll be delighted when Moores, Downton, Clarke and Flower are excised from English cricket. They are the cancer that needs removing.

And my point was in regard to the public perception of Cook. Not the ECB, who at no point have I defended.

I think a lot more could be said about the contributions of Flower and Clarke to English cricket, but that is another discussion

[Making_Splinters]

But it is still relevant because there are many who do blame him. Indeed if he symbolised the tyrannical ecb, then rejoicing in his dismissal is justified... Wasn't that your point?

Cook's continued tenure as ODI captain was symptomatic of what the ECB had become under Flower and then under Downton. Would you blame Cook for not scoring runs? It's a very odd choice of word to use. The blame for where things ended up lies at the feet of Downton and Moores, Cook was their tool.

Cook gave some very odd press conferances over the summer, but deep down he wanted to do the best for the team. Blame isn't the word to use, Cook needed to go for the good of the side. I'm pleased to see the first cracks in the dogma above all approach the ECB have preached since the end of the Ashes.

I'll be delighted when Moores, Downton, Clarke and Flower are excised from English cricket. They are the cancer that needs removing.

And my point was in regard to the public perception of Cook. Not the ECB, who at no point have I defended.

I think a lot more could be said about the contributions of Flower and Clarke to English cricket, but that is another discussion

The public perception of Cook? He's failed with the bat, shown little nouse for captaincy, damaged the chances of the team and given some very deluded press conferances this year.

It's not his fault the machine refused to step in and make the "tough decision", a failure which made Cook more and more of a laughing stock as the year went on.

Any road up, he's gone albeit too late. Hopefully he'll come back into form with the bat.