Rebuilding for the next World Cup.

[rich1uk]

I see were once again on the let's blame Bell tack, the England fans default position. It's BBC 606 all over again.

if you look back I was actually supporting bell to keep his spot as well, at least in the short term

[sussexpob]

I see were once again on the let's blame Bell tack, the England fans default position. It's BBC 606 all over again.

Tell me ONE thing Hope...

Is 77 SR acceptable and comparable to other openers in this world cup.... is it acceptable in this form of the game generally?

Nothing else, answer that question before you start on

[rich1uk]

bell's problem wasn't really his strikerate tbh

most people here would welcome trott back into the ODI team and his career strike-rate is 77

bell's problem was making starts and not going on to capitalise on them and naturally increasing his strike-rate as the innings went on, something that has kinda plagued his career. even despite that I am still backing him to keep his place in the short term as imo we need someone with his kind of experience in the side, throwing a brand new team together with a novice captain isn't really the greatest idea imo

[sussexpob]

bell's problem wasn't really his strikerate tbh ....bell's problem was making starts and not going on to capitalise on them and naturally increasing his strike-rate as the innings went on, something that has kinda plagued his career.

So its not the fact that his strike rate is slow, its the fact he doesn't stay in long enough to become comfortable enough to score runs quick enough..... Er... seriously Rich ???????????????????

most people here would welcome trott back into the ODI team and his career strike-rate is 77

People like coldplay and voted for the Nazi's, what does that tell you about trusting people?

Seriously though, our answer to scoring 50 more runs an innings is to bring back our slowest batter available?

How does Trott help this situation, assuming that he is capable of touring and is mentally tough enough to face international bowling again?

Trott being mentioned is the full stop and large exclamation mark on how poor a side we have become.

[rich1uk]

So its not the fact that his strike rate is slow, its the fact he doesn't stay in long enough to become comfortable enough to score runs quick enough..... Er... seriously Rich ???????????????????

if you had seen a lot of the games strikerates tended not to be high at the start of innings but people would accelerate in the second half of their innings

bell's strikerates for his first 40-50 runs wasn't an issue , the issue was he was then getting out before capitalising on those starts

but just keep being sarcastic ...

[Arthur Crabtree]

England's batting stats for last two years against top eight sides.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

Trott's SR over the last two years has been 86. Not an immense number of games admittedly. My experience, is that he did a different job from Bell, he batted through the innings, and he measured the score needed. He was the heartbeat of the batting. I'm not one that wants him back though, not in the short term anyway. England should be looking at different kinds of batters. I didn't agree with his critics, still acknowledging he didn't have a necessary extra gear in the last 15, but I accept the game has changed. I don't like Coldplay either, preferring rawer music with better lyric.

I don't think Bell was a major reason why England we're eliminated. the whole side failed to function. He could easily have an England future s a best available option should others not take their chance. But in the short term, a new coach should bring through some of the best younger players.

[sussexpob]

So its not the fact that his strike rate is slow, its the fact he doesn't stay in long enough to become comfortable enough to score runs quick enough..... Er... seriously Rich ???????????????????

if you had seen a lot of the games strikerates tended not to be high at the start of innings but people would accelerate in the second half of their innings

bell's strikerates for his first 40-50 runs wasn't an issue , the issue was he was then getting out before capitalising on those starts

but just keep being sarcastic ...

You acknowledge that this is a consistent problem in his career, so I don't really know what point you are making. If he is plagued by an inability to take starts and push on, then what is he bringing to the team???

I am sure other openers could average quite well if they batted under the rate for more overs to build their score. Most bowling sides would happily let a batsman waste 10-20 overs.

[rich1uk]

and my point is criticise him for what the problem is because focussing on his strikerate doesn't do that

I would have hoped my track record on ODI approach, selection and tactics would have been quite clear that I want us to be more positive, show more intent and catch up with other teams around the world

however I don't think we should go in with just power-hitters and no-one that can be relied upon the build partnerships, judging bell statistically on a 6 game world cup when afaik his strikerate for the last couple of years has been in the mid 80s doesn't really make sense, I also think as I have said we need to have someone with experience in the side at least in the short term

i'm no bell fanboi, far from it, I think bfb has a voodoo doll of me for some of the things I have said about bell in the past , so I am not just saying these things out of favouritism

[Gingerfinch]

Bell is such a good player, who often gets a start, and a breezy one, that it's frustrating when he gets out or/and gets bogged down.

[sussexpob]

and my point is criticise him for what the problem is because focussing on his strikerate doesn't do that

But this is where I am confused. If he gets out before most people push on, surely his strike rate is not good enough when he gets out, and is the issue??? his average is strong, if he scored as many runs as he does quicker, he could still be a very useful player. For me, its not the lack of killer 100's, its how slow his acceptable contributions can be.

however I don't think we should go in with just power-hitters and no-one that can be relied upon the build partnerships, judging bell statistically on a 6 game world cup when afaik his strikerate for the last couple of years has been in the mid 80s doesn't really make sense, I also think as I have said we need to have someone with experience in the side at least in the short term

You cant really drop Root as he is younger and looks better. You need a guy like Ali in there for his aggression, and Taylor needs a good shot at 3. Morgan may go, but again you need a power hitter there, and at 6 ideally. One of the top 4 has to go for a power hitter, and I think that person at this current time. Not sure how he would fit into a rejuvenated side.

Taylor, for instance, has looked acceptable and has a record in county cricket that deserves him being a longer term pick in the only role that Bell plays. For me, Bell is a symbol of England;s outdated approach, and he has to be sacrificed as much as anything as part of a purge on an outdated method.

[rich1uk]

I don't want to drop any of the guys you mention to keep bell in the team and still think moeen would be better down the order as he has struggled a lot against genuine pace with the new ball despite looking good in patches

don't know how many times I need to repeat I am not saying he has a long term future, I am not saying he should be around for the next world cup, I just worry we already have a very inexperienced team which will become even more inexperienced when the likes of bopara, Anderson, broad and maybe morgan get dropped

I just want someone there as a short term measure who has played more than a handful of ODIs to provide some stability and experience to what is likely to be a fairly new look team

[sussexpob]

On another side note, Whitaker comes out and says KP is not in their plans, and Alistair Cook says that "in hindsight, England made the wrong decision to drop him"....

Expect Cook to come back as ODI captain soon

[sussexpob]

In fact, I don't know how we can really discuss England moving on from the World Cup without reference to Captain Fantastic. I have little faith that we have seen the back of him in ODI cricket, and expect that he will play in the next series

[Dilbert]

The selectors made that decision because they thought it was the best for English cricket. Hindsight has probably proved them wrong, but now it's easy to say that

I think you saw in Australia at the World Cup the dangers of making such a big decision so close to the tournament. I don't know what's gone on on that tour, but it did look like the lads were shell shocked from the first two games. That's when you need real leadership to help steer you through that. I would have loved to have had the opportunity that was taken away from me

This is what Captain Fantastic said. Unbelievable

[ianp1970]

Looking at the squad that has been selected for the test tour of WI, it is quite likely that the top 4 or 5 for the next ODI series will be completely different.