Premiership 2016/2017

[yuppie]

3 losses in a row for United.

Next up Northampton Town........

[yuppie]

Stokes start to the season is not getting any better.

[The Professor]

Sunderland gifted that to us today. Looked weak

[sussexpob]

Watching Stoke today, I smashed 10 EUR on Mark Hughes being the first manager to go this year. Good odds. Sounds reactive, seasons only just begun and Stoke arent the worst team on paper, but christ alive they looked inept today. Setup with defensive full backs and a dedicated tackling midfielder, but when not on the ball their defensive shape and discipline was as bad as I have seen in a while. Apart from the goal in the last seconds of a game where Palace had given up after 70 minutes and were content to knock it about, Stoke looked like they had nothing going forward either. Worst team I have seen this year.

Tottenham look like they have peaked last year. Twice I have watched them this year and thought they dont look the same. Moyes needs a miracle to keep his side up.

As for United.... they need more than one good signing year to be title contenders. If Mourinho fails at the Champions League spots, you can complain. If they finish 3rd or 4th, I think he does well.

[yuppie]

So United finish 5th last year, same amount of points as City. spend 150 million and bring in Zlatan on a free and get Jose in, and if they finish one place higher its not been a bad season?

Leicester are not going to finish in the top 4 this year. Spurs are a long way from where they were last year. Chealski still seem to have some issues, but they have not spent £150 million. Sainst and west ham seem very different teams to last year as well.

Are you expecting Liverpool to be challenging more this year? Arsenal did not spend well and again don't seem to want to challenge.

The way i look at it it should be City vs United. If United finish 2nd they should just about be satisfied.

[sussexpob]

Who from United's team gets in other top 4 teams?

Arsenal would take Ibra, De Gea and Pogba, other than that I am not sure any other Man United player makes a compelling case for selection over an Arsenal counterpart. Man United would start Bellerin, potentially Monreal, and take either of Arsenals CB's, could do with a Xhaka type player, would let Ozil or Sanchez walk into the starting line up, and would take most of Arsenals bench as superior to their own back ups virtually all over the field.

Chelsea? Dont need De Gea, have a striker with nearly 80 goals in three seasons so dont really need Ibra. Id take all of Chelsea's starting defenders over United. Id take Matic/Hazard/Willian/Fabragas and Oscar over all of United Midfield from this week..... ok so Pogba is this and that, but Fabragas has a proven record..... so maybe Pogba at a push gets into a fully fit Chelsea team?

City.... would take De Gea. Id probably take Shaw over Kolarov, and Smalling over Glichy (who played at CB last game)..... nothing else. Pogba isnt as good as De Bruyne, and Ibra is not as good as a fit Aguero.

Man United have invested badly in the the years after Ferguson. It will take a long while to improve that squad.

[yuppie]

So what does Pogba bring to United for 89 million? I do not watch Italian football, but what i have seen of him so far in the Euros and a couple of games at United is a player who seems to have a good engine, but can not tackle, loose's the ball to often for a midfielder and does not have the range of passing like a Scholes. Also not great with assist or scoring.

Where did he play for Juve?

Is his underwhelming start due to Jose playing him as a defensive midfielder. If so why did he not go and buy Kante? Or in this formation should Pogba be playing where Rooney is?

United yesterday for me just looked to narrow up front. United of old always seemed to have fast wingers. Yesterday Rashofrd and Martial just seemed to keep cutting in, no width and Watford bottled them up well in the centre. No one in the United team seemed to have the ability to break through the middle.

[sussexpob]

When Pogba first arrived at Juventus he was considered the defensive minded of the 3 central midfield players, playing in a 3-5-2 system with Vidal as the all conquering box to box midfielder, and Pirlo as the vacant attacking playmaker who wandered round and stroked the ball. So the Busquets of the Xavi/Iniesta Barca midfielder. I think when Vidal went to Bayern Munich they gave Pogba a chance to fill in that role in the team, and at that time Juventus became ridiculous in their domestic league and narrowly lost the Champions League final. When Pirlo left to play in New York, Pogba offered to step in to fill his shoes as the most advanced role and was even better in this role, been trusted with it because he had shown all the qualities of an attacking player. So essentially, as his 4 years at Juventus ticked over, every year he became more of an attacking presence to the point that last year, he was in the number 10 slot and winning plaudits of his ability in the role.

There is no doubt that there is a Hybrid type of player in Pogba. Hes a tremendously difficult player to compare others to. In some ways he's a bit like Vieria, but hasnt got the tackling ability(but much better in the air) if he does have the direct power and physicality. He could be come a Vieria, he has the talent but not the positional sense or discipline, which can be learnt. But he is also much better going forward than Vieria could ever be. Same can be said of Gerrard, Pogba has dribbling skills and the flair and touch that Gerrard never had, but Pogba will probably never possess that level of being able to really physically dominate a game defensively at Champions League level, which Gerrard could do. But in certain ways Pogba reminds me a lot of a better Gerrard, a more advanced physical midfield with the skills to pull off more than the long cross... both possess that ability to score from 30 yards regualrly.

What is Pogba's positives? Jack of all trades essentially. He has a skill set that only a handful of players in my life time have had (and they were all legends). Very few players can do a very good job in every position in a midfield, but Pogba can. He is definately of more use further up the field though, he has to be using his immense power, pace and driving ability to be direct and coming at defenders. Then when he gets in the range of the defence, his close touch and finesse is very evident. Ok, he is no Messi, but he possesses incredible skill for his size. And as time has gone on, he is becoming far more clever and deft with his touches around the box. He is also a beast in the air and possess a cannon shot.

Negatives? While his all round game is of a high level, he does not possess one stand out skill that is "top top" level. He will never pass like Pirlo/Scholes or Xavi. He will never dribble like Messi, or have the close control of Iniesta. He will never tackle like Makelele or work as hard as Mascherano.... but Messi cant tackle, Xavi was tiny and got bullied in physical games, Iniesta couldnt head a ball to save his life, Mascherano offered nothing going forward, and did you ever see Makelele score.

Pogba will get it right and become a Premier League legend.

[sussexpob]

The problem for Pogba is the current midfield setup up at United.

Pogba is a 10.....
Rooney wants to prove he is a 10...
Felliani is equally useless in every position other than being the old fashioned target aerial threat in the 10 slot...
Rashford is a 9 being played out wide....
Martial is a 9 being played out wide.....

If you play essentially 3 x 10's in central midfield and two strikers on the wing, with Ibra being the laziest striker in the existence of football, any well drilled team at this level will beat you.

[mikesiva]

Man C away was written off before the season started.

We lost 5-1 last season and Man C look way better already this season under Guardiola.

It's how we do against the Hulls Burnleys and West Broms that decides whether we go down or not.

I'm not expecting much against Everton, the way they're playing, next week either.

Pep credited Bournemouth today as being the toughest team City have faced under him. Seemed to infer that tactically they setup well and looked good when they had the ball..... he said that it was on a case that his team had better quality in the more important moments, but Bournemouth made it difficult.

Howe should take encouragement from that. If anything I see those words as respect to what Howe is doing, coming from probably the greatest coach of our era.

Sterling was good against Bournemouth.

[sussexpob]

I dont need convincing on Sterling. I think he is going to be a class player. He is in the best hands... lets hope Pep can turn him and Stones into world class footballers.

[yuppie]

Cheers for that SP. So Jose needs to put Progba just behind the striker and tel Rooney his best days are behind him and that maybe its time to go back to Everton.

Jose seems like at present he is just trying to fit everyone in, when he really needs to pick a team that suits. Jose has also become very predicable in what he does. He will also need to bring success as i can not see too many of United faithful putting up with the dross that they are playing. You know what you are getting with Jose, and a lot of the red half of Manchester must be looking at the blue half very enviously at present.

United might also need to keep a look out for Liverpool. No European distractions, and they were much better than Chealski the other day. Liverpool have beaten the Gunners and Chealski already this season, point against Spurs. If they learn to beat the Burnleys of the league then they might well be challenging for top 4.

[sussexpob]

All the best five midfielder systems need the CM's to play different roles. No matter how you setup around that nucleus, you need those three to gel and be effective. Jose has really gotten this wrong, completely wrong. I guess he doesnt trust certain players he has, but he has to setup the team in a system and forget about the individual misgivings, and he will see the benefits.

For me, you have to have a ball tackling man in that 3. Blind/Schneiderlin/Carrick should be in the team to do that role. The second of the three needs to be a mobile guy, Schnwini was the perfect man 3 years ago, but hasnt got it anymore possibly. Id still be tempted to play there. This is the role United lack most. Rooney cannot play that role, he neither has the quickness, the fitness, the creativity, the link play, or the understanding of the position. Maybe Herrera can play there, but that puts extra emphasis on the first CM to be really good defensively. The third man is Pogba, the man who is most advanced and has the ball to run at the defence and create. Martial is the better winger on the left, Mkhatarayn comes in on the right. Felliani should be nowhere near the side.

Do Liverpool have a top 4 defence? I can see them gradually dropping down to Europa Level

[mikesiva]

As usually happens when a Mourinho team goes through a bad spell, Jose turns on a player, and blasts him...this time it's Luke Shaw:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 16621.html

Why are they "shocked"? Were they unaware what happened at Chelsea?

[budgetmeansbudget]

I didn't rate him before he broke his leg, massively overpriced.

I'm sure when he checks his bank account he'll manage to cope with Mourinhos criticism, the poor love.