The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby bigfluffylemon » Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:15 pm

Well that's depressing. The one consolation for the armchair critic might be the right to say 'I told you so' but it feels pretty hollow for our predictions to have been so depressingly right. Those four seamers really looking good value, eh? From not going in with a spinner, to bowling first, to drops, no balls, everything we've said was a problem has been proven to be so. Now England are going to concede 400+ and will have to bat last with Lyon lining up on a pitch that will break up.

Of course it's not over yet, but even now at day 6 of the series the familiar sinking feeling has set in - England have a long way to go to get back in this match, and lose this match and the series is as good as gone. And largely because of failure to do some pretty basic stuff right.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby alfie » Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:20 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Can't really tell from highlights, but Robinson seemed to send down a high % of pies in among a few good balls.



Spot on there , Arthur. Robinson (who was rather disturbingly down on pace quite a bit) actually bowled some really good balls - but far too many pies as well : rather undid the good work . Notably gifting Head some free boundaries to get started.

In fact the "pie %" was the main issue for England . For all the criticism they're getting , I reckon they beat the bat enough to have had much better rewards most days (couple of dropped catches didn't help ; but also were on the wrong side of some near things in the lbw area). And they actually managed quite a few maiden overs despite having attacking fields in the first half of the day. But the boundary count was not just due to some very good batting (we should not forget to praise that !) but also far too many loose balls. Everyone apart from Anderson guilty in that area. I'm forgiving Tongue , who was OK for a first Ashes effort ; but Robinson , Stokes , and surprisingly Broad all served up way too many freebies... Head lapped them up.

Long way back now. Pitch wasn't as helpful for bowling as expected - very slow and not much bounce ; so batting in reply may not be impossible : but they are likely going to be chasing rather a big score ... And with Pope doubtful and a long tail this is looking a daunting task.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby alfie » Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:31 am

bigfluffylemon wrote:Well that's depressing. The one consolation for the armchair critic might be the right to say 'I told you so' but it feels pretty hollow for our predictions to have been so depressingly right. Those four seamers really looking good value, eh? From not going in with a spinner, to bowling first, to drops, no balls, everything we've said was a problem has been proven to be so. Now England are going to concede 400+ and will have to bat last with Lyon lining up on a pitch that will break up.

Of course it's not over yet, but even now at day 6 of the series the familiar sinking feeling has set in - England have a long way to go to get back in this match, and lose this match and the series is as good as gone. And largely because of failure to do some pretty basic stuff right.



Largely agree with that. Failure of execution more than any flaw in the approach (although the armchair critics will be lining up to declare that all the advances under McCullum and Stokes were just a mirage). The no balls really annoy me !

I generally don't like not having a spinner either. But with both the first choice spinners basically crocked you can see why they went the way they did. If Root's golden arm keeps getting the important breaks may not matter that much anyway :)

Lyon will be dangerous later no doubt. But England don't have any lions currently except the ones on their shirts...
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:40 am

Some swing from the weather, but Lord's always starts flat underfoot doesn't it? Some cloud- and rain- about today, but if England get through the Aussies in the morning, it should clear up for the home batters.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:43 am

alfie wrote: Failure of execution more than any flaw in the approach


As I have said in the recent past concerning other decisions Stokes and McCullum have made, you cannot judge tactical decision making purely on the outcome. England's decision to bowl and field 4 seamers is coming under fire, and BFL certainly doesn't agree with it - but in my own opinion, I 100% agree with your point made..... England simply failed to execute, and as I stated a few times during the game yesterday, bowled like drains at stages. If England had bowled well, there was enough in the pitch to validate both of the decisions the team made concerning the extra seamer and choosing to field. I can't really criticise those decisions for that reason..... Australia would not be 350/5 if England had got basic fundamentals correct.

You look at the start of the day... Khawaja coming off a huge match gets a classic Anderson ball that swings late, cuts off the pitch the other way, a defence that had been watertight last week was cut to shreds, dropped catch. Warner then got a replica of the same ball from Broad (I think) and Pope put down a simple catch. If those two catches are taken, its a completely different test match. You then get two batsman with failed starts in the series in, score low and openers back, overhead conditions and ball moving, lots of pressure. Even when Khawaja got out Marnus looked very nervous, at one point he tried to drive and wildly edged behind square. But there was one over where he got three pies to tuck into, and that was it, the pressure was gone. Even Smith was beaten a few times off the pitch.

I have a really horrible feeling this afternoon that Australia are going to make this pitch look very difficult to bat on.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:04 am

Can rather sum the whole day up by the way England bowled to Warner. Wee Davey was coming across his stumps, getting his weight very forward, and attacking the ball. England responded by bowling a 4th stump line to him, but too full. By committing forward he got on top of the ball and was able to hit it. England then responded by bowling way too short to him, and he pulled a few balls away to the boundary. The only time England put the balls shorter of a length, he made errors, and yet they kept on pushing it full. Broad then bowled a lovely inswinger to him, and he was beaten, inside edged I think for 4. He then went back outside off stump.

Tongue then came on, and straight away went inswing, got some cut from the pitch, almost a carbon copy of the Broad ball... got nowhere near it. Tongue then did what Broad didn't... he realise Warner was coming across and failed to pick the inswing. One ball later, ended.

It took England 70 odd runs to fathom Warner was setting himself up for anything coming in. The pitch was doing a bit. Just really dull cricket from England. They gifted a batsman who looked like a walking wicket a big score by bowling right into the areas he was setting himself up in
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:19 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Anderson could do with getting in the action. One wicket in the series.


Something is not right with Jimmy imo. I am betting we will see a mid-series Swann style retirement, because he is starting to show his age, and his pace really is starting to drop. I doubt there are many examples of England choosing to field first on a green pitch, overcast conditions, and the opposition being 350/5 with Anderson only bowling 15 overs in the day. Especially when the others are going at over double the RR. You'd have expected Jimmy to have bowled far more..... I am just not sure he is capable of it anymore.

He will be 41 at the end of the series, so no disgrace in that. 180th test....he's been a timeless servant to the English game, but it seems like it might be time to step away
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:33 am

I quite like the look of Tongue, even though he was expensive. He's got that loose shoulder that really good reverse swing bowlers have have. Could do to be a bit quicker, but without getting injured...
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:36 am

sussexpob wrote:I am betting we will see a mid-series Swann style retirement


That crossed my mind, but the amount of aggro Swann got, I'm not sure anyone else will go there.

I've not checked, but my impression is that Anderson has regularly started the season slowly in recent years and got better later on in the summer. Maybe he's underbowled, plus this season he's been injured.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:15 am

If that hasn't hit the bat, then its got to be lbw... (and if it has, its out caught).

Yep.. England strike early

An over that somewhat sums up Englands bowling effort. Gets a wicket, among 4 boundaries.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:29 am

Starc falls to Anderson... good start for England
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby bigfluffylemon » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:31 am

That was the start England needed. Let's hope they can make the most of it. I fear sussex may be right about batting this afternoon.

Totally agree with the failure of execution, BTW, as well as the plans. I guess my point is if three quicks bowl dross, a fourth is unlikely to make that much difference in the first innings, but might in the fourth...
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:41 am

Anderson giving Smith a good work over here. Batting looking suddenly tougher, which England will only be partially happy about. Two edges in the over.... but Smith is on 99 now
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:47 am

Normal service resumed.... 100 for Smith. Just a phenomenal player

Expect Smith to have a bit of a hit now
Last edited by sussexpob on Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:48 am

Has Cummins more than one big innings in him for the series?

Should brighten up later. England should get the better of the conditions.
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