The enigma that is Chris Gayle

[mikesiva]

Ah sorry, that's where we're at cross-purposes. I was thinking primarily about the Test team....

Sure, I have no problem with Gibson dropping Gayle, Sarwan, Shiv and Benn from the ODI side. It is a meaningless ODI series, and what better opportunity to try out untested youngsters? I don't see any of the above four as likely to be major factors in the next World Cup, in four years' time. And I agree with all your possible selections for ODI opener, because, as you know, there's a lot more flexibility involved in who can open the batting in ODIs. Yes, even a middle-order batsman can be a successful ODI opener, so we're agreed there....

But what about the problem of replacing Gayle in Tests? That is a more fundamental problem, because our openers have not exactly set the world on fire in Tests. We have good competition for middle-order places, so good that Dwayne Bravo has been forced out of the middle order because of his inconsistent performances.

However, the opening partnership has been a problem ever since the departure of Greenidge and Haynes. The only consistency about our openers has been the selection of Chris Gayle, and unfortunately his partners have consistently failed at the Test level. Dale Richards is in poor form, having made 85 runs at a paltry average of just 14 from just four matches for Barbados, so he's out of the reckoning. This series is the opportunity for Smith and Barath to press their cases, and if they don't grasp that opportunity, maybe Simmons will get a look in. But if none of that trio come up with the goods, the clamour will grow for Gayle to be recalled, and it will be hard to ignore....

I know it's early days, but this would be my team for the first Test in May:

1) Devon Smith
2) Adrian Barath
3) Darren Bravo
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Ramnaresh Sarwan/Marlon Samuels
6) Brendan Nash
7) Carlton Baugh/Denesh Ramdin
8) Darren Sammy (do we have a choice?)
9) Andre Russell/Fidel Edwards
10) Kemar Roach
11) Dev Bishoo

[ChrisQ]

Ah sorry, that's where we're at cross-purposes. I was thinking primarily about the Test team....

Sure, I have no problem with Gibson dropping Gayle, Sarwan, Shiv and Benn from the ODI side. It is a meaningless ODI series, and what better opportunity to try out untested youngsters? I don't see any of the above four as likely to be major factors in the next World Cup, in four years' time. And I agree with all your possible selections for ODI opener, because, as you know, there's a lot more flexibility involved in who can open the batting in ODIs. Yes, even a middle-order batsman can be a successful ODI opener, so we're agreed there....

Yeah, but I could possibly Benn, Sarwan and Gayle being part of the 2015 squad as they aren't that old, but given Gayle's under-performance in international cricket, his words and his latest IPL performance I doubt Gayle will be in the 2015 world cup. I'll expound on that later.

But what about the problem of replacing Gayle in Tests? That is a more fundamental problem, because our openers have not exactly set the world on fire in Tests. We have good competition for middle-order places, so good that Dwayne Bravo has been forced out of the middle order because of his inconsistent performances.

Yeah that is a problem. But perhaps as vindalf said they just need to try one of the guys in the middle at the top. Chanderpaul used to be a fairly effective opener and he now plays in the middle order. That kind of move doesn't seem likely to be one-way only, so the worst they could have done was try Sarwan as an opener or just for the heck of it even used Dwayne Bravo or Ramdin.

However, the opening partnership has been a problem ever since the departure of Greenidge and Haynes. The only consistency about our openers has been the selection of Chris Gayle, and unfortunately his partners have consistently failed at the Test level. Dale Richards is in poor form, having made 85 runs at a paltry average of just 14 from just four matches for Barbados, so he's out of the reckoning. This series is the opportunity for Smith and Barath to press their cases, and if they don't grasp that opportunity, maybe Simmons will get a look in. But if none of that trio come up with the goods, the clamour will grow for Gayle to be recalled, and it will be hard to ignore....

It should be fairly easy to ignore since Gayle doesn't seem to want to play international cricket. Actions speak louder than words but combined together, actions and words speak volumes.

Gayle now has a century in the 4th edition of the IPL playing for Bangalore. Do we really believe he would have scored a century in the T20 against Pakistan yesterday or have gotten a score more in line with those of the last T20Is he played for West Indies when South Africa toured (which were 14 off 16 and a duck off 2 balls)? Strangely enough Pollard and Bravo were the top scorers in those two T20s and Gayle was captain and had a contract I believe. So it couldn't have been Sammy "messing up" the XI (although Sammy was there and made more than Gayle in each match) or the fact that he didn't have the captaincy or wasn't getting regular pay. It could be that he was facing better bowlers, but I doubt that is the rea$on. Gayle is obviously happier when playing for lots of money. He happily represented Jamaica during the Stanford era when cash with a capital $ was there to be won (never mind for now that it was not money that was gotten in a legitimate or sustainable way) and played like a man possessed in the $tandford $20 million match, but dumped Jamaica like an old shoe (and knowingly made himself unavailable for T20I selection) when Big Ba$h came a calling. Gayle just needs to stop pretending that he even wants to play for Jamaica or West Indies because he doesn't. He wants to play for the highest bidder. That's fine. That's good. That will never be international cricket however and it won't be domestic WI cricket either. But playing like the way he did before going off to IPL 4, then saying in the radio interview that the World Cup performance "was a statement" and then going on to play extremely well in IPL 4 raises serious suspicions that he was never happy with international cricket (and even playing for his own territory) and worse raises the spectre that he helped to throw matches in the World Cup. Gayle should just be honest with himself and the fans and just say - "hey, I don't want to play for West Indies or Jamaica anymore but I wish the WI team well on the international stage and wish Jamaica well in all the domestic tournaments".

If fans clamour for him to come back it is only because they will be focusing on his 333 (which he himself indicated in the interview was driven by external factors and therefore implying that it wasn't the norm for his attitude). In the last home series Gayle was terrible in the T20s and ODIs and about average in the tests. He scored 14 and 0 in the T20s (which apparently is his favourite format); 45 (the only time he was the highest scorer for WI in the ODI series), 26 (in a game where Dale Richards, Darren Sammy and top scorer Bravo all scored 50s), 16, 29 (in a match where Richards, Shiv and the two Bravos all scored 45 or more) and 12 in the ODIs. In the Tests he scored 6 & 73 (top scoring in the second innings), 50 and then 20 & 10.

Given also that there were rumours that with Jamaica the team wasn't a bunch of happy-campers because Gayle wasn't made captain in the first Caribbean T20 and Gayle talked about a similar environment with Sammy being the captain instead of him, how can Gayle really be in the team if he doesn't plan to commit as captain? He certainly can't be part-time captain. Thanks to WIPA as Gayle likes to say, players can now get central contracts...the very same central contracts that others accepted but that he and the other main West Indian IPL players rejected. I recall before central contracts that WIPA used to gripe about the lack of central contracts and claim that instituting central contracts would provide mental security to the players and allow them to focus on their game (thereby implying that we would have improved performances which of course never happened). Central Contracts come and now a player rejects it and then claims that the board is trying to stop him from earning. At the same time he seems to expect that he, as a non-contracted player, would be leading a team likely composed mainly of contracted players and be free to make himself unavailable whenever he wishes. Don't know how that would work. I can just imagine if the classmate selected as headboy at my old school had decided to tell the principal and school admin that he wanted to be headboy but only when it suited him and he should be free to not have to carry out headboy duties when his other chosen priorities get in the way. They would probably have all laughed or had heart-attacks, not sure which one.

I know it's early days, but this would be my team for the first Test in May:

1) Devon Smith
2) Adrian Barath
3) Darren Bravo
4) Shiv Chanderpaul
5) Ramnaresh Sarwan/Marlon Samuels
6) Brendan Nash
7) Carlton Baugh/Denesh Ramdin
8) Darren Sammy (do we have a choice?)
9) Andre Russell/Fidel Edwards
10) Kemar Roach
11) Dev Bishoo

Yeah that sounds like the likely team more or less although I think Simmons would be in the squad as well and probably Benn and Rampaul too.

[mikesiva]

But perhaps as vindalf said they just need to try one of the guys in the middle at the top. Chanderpaul used to be a fairly effective opener and he now plays in the middle order. That kind of move doesn't seem likely to be one-way only, so the worst they could have done was try Sarwan as an opener or just for the heck of it even used Dwayne Bravo or Ramdin.


Gayle now has a century in the 4th edition of the IPL playing for Bangalore. Do we really believe he would have scored a century in the T20 against Pakistan yesterday or have gotten a score more in line with those of the last T20Is he played for West Indies when South Africa toured (which were 14 off 16 and a duck off 2 balls)? Strangely enough Pollard and Bravo were the top scorers in those two T20s and Gayle was captain and had a contract I believe. So it couldn't have been Sammy "messing up" the XI (although Sammy was there and made more than Gayle in each match) or the fact that he didn't have the captaincy or wasn't getting regular pay. It could be that he was facing better bowlers, but I doubt that is the rea$on. Gayle is obviously happier when playing for lots of money.

I don't believe that either Chanderpaul, Ramdin or either Bravo have a tight enough technique to open the batting in Tests. Sure, they can do it in ODIs, but Tests is another matter. As for Shiv, with age his reflexes have slowed, so another reason why not to push him up the order. It runs the risk of taking a good middle-order batsman, and destroying his confidence by making him open the batting. I feel that we have to find our openers from those players who currently open the batting for their respective regional teams.

Yes, Gayle hit a fabulous century for Bangalore. To me, that indicates that the time has come for poorer cricket boards, like the WICB, to work around the IPL, and stop trying to fight it. Because it any one is going to come out the loser in that fight, it's going to be the WICB. There were problems with Pollard and Big Bravo last year with regards to the IPL, and it might be them against next year. Or it might be the next upcoming rising star. It would be a bad mistake for us to think that Gayle's clash with the WICB over the IPL is a rare occurence.

And why is it wrong for Gayle to want to earn as much money as possible for his talents? I believe it's time the WICB recognise this, and work around the IPL, to ensure that the talented WI players can play both in the IPL and in international fixtures for the West Indies. There's a simple way to do this: stop scheduling an international series that clashes with the IPL, and stop accepting invites to tour another country at a time when it clashes with the IPL, i.e. England in May.

[ntini77]

After hearing Gayle's interview, the morale of the West Indian cricket team doesn't sound good to me. They should just let the guys play their natural game.

I'm afraid we're simply not a good enough side to exclude the likes of Sarwan & Gayle.

[ChrisQ]

I don't believe that either Chanderpaul, Ramdin or either Bravo have a tight enough technique to open the batting in Tests.

Well neither does Gayle really. He goes for much ducks than hundreds. That doesn't stop him from claiming to be an opener does it? Besides we won't know if they aren't given a run will we?

As for Shiv, with age his reflexes have slowed, so another reason why not to push him up the order.

Quite true, I agree there.

It runs the risk of taking a good middle-order batsman, and destroying his confidence by making him open the batting.

I think Chanders could handle it, but as for the others this thing about confidence really does make me wonder just when our West Indian players became mentally enfeebled. They've grown soft. I'm sure that Bravo and Ramdin must have opened at some point in life. Heck even Darren Powell used to open at his school if I I remember what I was told correctly.

feel that we have to find our openers from those players who currently open the batting for their respective regional teams.

Well we may as well do without openers then. The territorial teams keep selecting people who can't open (think Xavier Marshall and Omar Phillips). So either the WI selectors should just tell every team that WI will start test matches with 2 wickets down for 0 runs or they can try and find other good batsmen who don't open for territorial teams and play them as openers.

Yes, Gayle hit a fabulous century for Bangalore. To me, that indicates that the time has come for poorer cricket boards, like the WICB, to work around the IPL, and stop trying to fight it.

I saw something completely different. I saw a man who fell just short of admitting that he played badly on purpose in the World Cup. That's disgusting. Playing for the World Cup in a team which won the first two titles and had been finalist in the third and you play badly in order to "make a statement"? That means it isn't about winning or even trying to get the World Cup but showing us fans the middle finger. If he breaks a leg I wouldn't be sorry.

There were problems with Pollard and Big Bravo last year with regards to the IPL, and it might be them against next year.

Unlikely. Pollard and Bravo seemed to have come to an amicable settlement with the Board regarding the IPL and the WI team. They can go play in both but they seem quite alright with not playing the entire IPL season.

Or it might be the next upcoming rising star. It would be a bad mistake for us to think that Gayle's clash with the WICB over the IPL is a rare occurence.

Why?

Let's look at the other IPL West Indians:

- Pollard: doesn't have a contract but according to the board anyway has reached agreement on IPL and WI team duties.

- Bravo: doesn't have a contract but will play in the ODIs and miss the Tests all with the blessing of the board.

- Barath: had an IPL contract, his IPL team almost got scuppered and he now has a WI contract.

- Roach: had an IPL contract, played in IPL but then accepted WI contract over IPL

- Sarwan: had an IPL contract, got released from it and no IPL team has shown interest since

- Shiv: ditto

- Fidel Edwards: had IPL contract, went to play IPL against medical advice, nearly broke his back as a result and now has no IPL contract

- Jerome Taylor: had IPL contract, was picked at IPL auction, still doesn't play though since he seems to have really broken something as he can't last a season anymore

I count 4 other players who came to some agreement with the board, 2 players for whom it will never be an issue apparently since no IPL team seems to want them and 2 players for whom it doesn't seem to be an issue because they break down very quickly.

And why is it wrong for Gayle to want to earn as much money as possible for his talents?

I never said anything was wrong with that. I said it was fine. What I think is wrong is for Gayle to not openly acknowledge this (he has hinted at it) and to continue pretending like anything else could ever take priority.

Look, if I know 4 people who wanted to enter into a polygamous marriage arrangement and did so openly and it was in place where such a practice is legal I don't have a problem with it. If someone is gay or lesbian and they are open about it and it is legal, all the best to them. If someone is a bigamist or racist and they don't hide it, then that is fine ( I won't associate with them, but that is their life). If someone is highly religious and believes in Heaven and Hell and believes that all those outside his particular denomination will be going to Hell that is their life and I'm not going to criticize their choice in beliefs. If someone wants to forego all money and live humbly then that is fine. If someone wants to get as much money as he can legally then that is fine too. But I wouldn't stand for the polygamous group lying to me in my face that they aren't polygamous or for the gay or lesbian to do so. I also wouldn't stand for the highly religious person pretending that for him his denomination and beliefs come second to something else. I also wouldn't stand for the humble man coming to me for money or for the one wishing to earn as much money as he can telling me "money isn't so important".

Gayle claims that he wants to play for WI cricket and WI cricket is first in his heart and he wanted to captain the team and yada yada yada. And apparently I was born yesterday. I don't doubt that Gayle may want to play for WI sometimes. But he certainly doesn't want to play for it all the time. So feeding me a line about how it is in his heart is insulting to me because it means he takes me for a fool. That is if he does realize his own nature. If he doesn't realize that he wants to earn as much money as possible for his talents and that this takes priority then it is sad because he doesn't know who he is.

I believe it's time the WICB recognise this, and work around the IPL, to ensure that the talented WI players can play both in the IPL and in international fixtures for the West Indies

Well Pollard and Bravo are all set to play in the IPL and in international fixtures for WI without the board only scheduling cricket at home in the month of March. Thanks to the fact that Pollard and Bravo seem open to working out mutually beneficial agreements, they benefit, the board benefits and most importantly all of the other players benefit because those 70-odd other first-class cricketers can still get a chance to play international cricket in April/May during good weather rather than twiddle their thumbs as they watch only 3 of their colleagues play IPL.

There's a simple way to do this: stop scheduling an international series that clashes with the IPL, and stop accepting invites to tour another country at a time when it clashes with the IPL, i.e. England in May.

There is a simpler solution - let those who don't really want to play international cricket be free not to. Give those who want to, the chance to do so. Gayle doesn't have to play if he really doesn't want to. Bravo and Pollard have already worked out deals for themselves. Why should the scheduling of international series which affect the livelihoods of at least 21 other players (from WI and the other team) plus the various groundstaff and coaching staff have to revolve around the whims of one man? How is that fair? If I was a West Indian cricketer who hadn't been picked for the IPL I would have thought it downright crazy that just because 3 of my colleagues are going off to play in India and Australia I have to sit at home and not play cricket until they are free to do. They aren't going to give me any of their paychecks, so why should my paycheck depend on when they want to play or are free to do so? Shouldn't my paycheck depend on when I am willing and able to play and when conditions are right? I should either sit at home or play only in domestic matches which don't draw enough crowds or media rights to sustain a proper pay structure for cricketers during April with good weather because a few of my colleagues are off in India? May as well start robbing banks if that was the way forward.

[ChrisQ]

After hearing Gayle's interview, the morale of the West Indian cricket team doesn't sound good to me. They should just let the guys play their natural game.

I'm afraid we're simply not a good enough side to exclude the likes of Sarwan & Gayle.

Yep, but we aren't good enough with them anyway, so what difference does it make? Everyone talks about how Bangladesh beat us without them, but I recall an interview with either Sobers or Croft and he said that we should stop the foolishness because there was every chance that Bangladesh would have beat us with those seniors anyway. As if to prove the point, Bangladesh then beat New Zealand (a full strength New Zealand) convincingly in a series.

[ntini77]

I saw a man who fell just short of admitting that he played badly on purpose in the World Cup. That's disgusting. Playing for the World Cup in a team which won the first two titles and had been finalist in the third and you play badly in order to "make a statement"? That means it isn't about winning or even trying to get the World Cup but showing us fans the middle finger. If he breaks a leg I wouldn't be sorry.

Surely that's a bit extreme isn't it?

[SaintPowelly]

If I remember rightly, Keiran Pollard rejected the chance to play for West Indies A last year so that he could play for Somerset in the English T20 competition.

How come he is such a hero and Gayle is such a villain ??

[ChrisQ]

If I remember rightly, Keiran Pollard rejected the chance to play for West Indies A last year so that he could play for Somerset in the English T20 competition.

How come he is such a hero and Gayle is such a villain ??

Yeah. Note the difference:

Pollard turned down a chance to play for West Indies A last year and clearly stated he wanted to play T20 for money and fun.

Gayle does not turn down a chance to play in the World Cup, doesn't perform in crucial matches and then comes on radio saying that the World Cup "was a statement" only shortly before going off to score a T20 century. What the in the blue blazes he means by "statement"? Unless Gayle's English is piss poor and he don't even know what he is saying he basically hinted that at least one performance in the World Cup was not what it appeared to be on the surface.

Pollard is honest with himself and with the wider fan base. Gayle doesn't sound like was.

As someone who paid money to see him and others play, I don't like being hinted to that my time, money and support was not worth it enough for him to do the decent thing and simply refuse to play for Windies if he didn't want to and let others whose hearts are in it (at least at the time) do so.

If Pollard had accepted West Indies A over Somerset and then put in a mediocre performance, come on radio and say that the West Indies A tour "was a statement" before going off to Somerset and scoring a breezy ton, you don't think some people would be calling for Pollard's head on a spike?

[ChrisQ]

I saw a man who fell just short of admitting that he played badly on purpose in the World Cup. That's disgusting. Playing for the World Cup in a team which won the first two titles and had been finalist in the third and you play badly in order to "make a statement"? That means it isn't about winning or even trying to get the World Cup but showing us fans the middle finger. If he breaks a leg I wouldn't be sorry.

Surely that's a bit extreme isn't it?

No it isn't. If others are content to be hoodwinked that is fine, but try to imagine Viv Richards, Courtney Walsh, Sobers, Lloyd, Lara or even Ryan Hinds doing that. Seriously this is outrageous. West Indies had won three matches, one of which Gayle sat out (the Ireland match) and had one foot in the quarterfinals. It was only England and India left to play and that was mainly to ensure qualification and determine which team WI would face in the quarterfinals. Gayle gets a nice 43 to help the team along but Sarwan gives away the game with a rubbish shot. Okay, no need to worry, because the Saffers saved our nuts by demolishing Bangladesh. Gayle then sits out the next match against India with an (apparent) injury and apart from Devon Smith none of the other seniors fire. Still no worry. WI only have to try and win the next 3 matches and they can get the World Cup again. In that match Gayle makes 8 and Sarwan bats at probably the slowest he has for the entire tournament. WI fold for 112 and Pakistan romp home. Then he comes on radio about some "statement" and goes back to India and scores a century with no sign of the injury. If he really does break his leg I wouldn't feel sorry. Why should I? Was he sorry for me or you or any of the other fans who either woke up early or just didn't sleep all so we could see his "statement"? What if he had refused to play and someone else had gone instead? Would that not have been just a strong a statement but without punishing fans by having them stay up to watch what sounds like it might have been intentional rubbish? What if in making his statement he allowed someone else to open and what if that someone else helped the team to put on defensible totals?

[amitb]

If I remember rightly, Keiran Pollard rejected the chance to play for West Indies A last year so that he could play for Somerset in the English T20 competition.

How come he is such a hero and Gayle is such a villain ??

Yeah. Note the difference:

Pollard turned down a chance to play for West Indies A last year and clearly stated he wanted to play T20 for money and fun.

Gayle does not turn down a chance to play in the World Cup, doesn't perform in crucial matches and then comes on radio saying that the World Cup "was a statement" only shortly before going off to score a T20 century. What the in the blue blazes he means by "statement"? Unless Gayle's English is piss poor and he don't even know what he is saying he basically hinted that at least one performance in the World Cup was not what it appeared to be on the surface.

Pollard is honest with himself and with the wider fan base. Gayle doesn't sound like was.

As someone who paid money to see him and others play, I don't like being hinted to that my time, money and support was not worth it enough for him to do the decent thing and simply refuse to play for Windies if he didn't want to and let others whose hearts are in it (at least at the time) do so.

If Pollard had accepted West Indies A over Somerset and then put in a mediocre performance, come on radio and say that the West Indies A tour "was a statement" before going off to Somerset and scoring a breezy ton, you don't think some people would be calling for Pollard's head on a spike?

You are really scrapping the barrel there Chris. There are lot of batsmen who didnt perform in crucial matches from WI and otherwise. If you are suggesting that he didnt perform knowingly then you really should be backing up this slander with some evidence.

[ChrisQ]

If I remember rightly, Keiran Pollard rejected the chance to play for West Indies A last year so that he could play for Somerset in the English T20 competition.

How come he is such a hero and Gayle is such a villain ??

Yeah. Note the difference:

Pollard turned down a chance to play for West Indies A last year and clearly stated he wanted to play T20 for money and fun.

Gayle does not turn down a chance to play in the World Cup, doesn't perform in crucial matches and then comes on radio saying that the World Cup "was a statement" only shortly before going off to score a T20 century. What the in the blue blazes he means by "statement"? Unless Gayle's English is piss poor and he don't even know what he is saying he basically hinted that at least one performance in the World Cup was not what it appeared to be on the surface.

Pollard is honest with himself and with the wider fan base. Gayle doesn't sound like was.

As someone who paid money to see him and others play, I don't like being hinted to that my time, money and support was not worth it enough for him to do the decent thing and simply refuse to play for Windies if he didn't want to and let others whose hearts are in it (at least at the time) do so.

If Pollard had accepted West Indies A over Somerset and then put in a mediocre performance, come on radio and say that the West Indies A tour "was a statement" before going off to Somerset and scoring a breezy ton, you don't think some people would be calling for Pollard's head on a spike?

You are really scrapping the barrel there Chris. There are lot of batsmen who didnt perform in crucial matches from WI and otherwise. If you are suggesting that he didnt perform knowingly then you really should be backing up this slander with some evidence.

Sorry? Have you not been following? Chris Gayle said that "The World Cup was a statement." I'm pretty sure mike can verify that for you since it was in the interview and was even transcribed on other cricketing forums that he attends.

That's straight from the horse's mouth. The only slander seems to by Gayle on West Indies' (formerly) good name.

EDIT: Now maybe my English is rusty , but saying something is "a statement" carries very heavy implications especially in light of his actions surrounding that pronouncement.

[ntini77]

I'm sorry but I can't comprehend a player deliberately performing badly on purpose.

[amitb]

Where did Chris Gayle say that "World Cup was a statement" ?

I have not read this anywhere

[ChrisQ]

Where did Chris Gayle say that "World Cup was a statement" ?

I have not read this anywhere

Read? Like on cricinfo which sanitizes stuff and would probably have a problem with the creole that was being used intermittently? It was in his radio rant which lbw375 only got to partially transcribe. As I said, the nearly full interview has been transcribed elsewhere (though there might be a recording of the full interview, hopefully available on the internet). Again if you don't believe me, you can ask mike if the other forum he frequents (CaribbeanCricket.com) didn't report it.

You can read what he said from the site where mike and lbw also visit from someone else who transcribed it much as lbw375 did (and this fella was transcribing it as it happened):

http://caribbeancricket.com/topic/984330/3

Go down about a dozen posts or so.

There is also the last post on this page from the same thread:

http://caribbeancricket.com/topic/984330/4

He had said those words live.