The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby ddb » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:28 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:KP says that only Dhoni has been playing more international cricket. Can't remember over what period. So Flower hasn't been resting him that carefully. It still isn't clear why a compromise couldn't have been found. Even if the ECB had to make concessions. Even given him the summer off for ODIs. Or just played one of the series. Pietersen isn't just any player. He's been doing all formats for longer than anyone else in the England team. Swann is comparable, but KP has been doing it for twice as long.


7 year period I think. ICC tweeted it last week or so.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby shankycricket » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:42 pm

Not sure I agree completely but well argued.

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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:05 am

shankybiggestengfan wrote:Not sure I agree completely but well argued.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricke ... ewman.html


I dont completely agree except for the points that ODI cricket has been messed around so much that they've effectively invalidatated the format.

I also agree to a point that the Adminitrators have created overkill in the ODI format, I remember a stat from the late 90's that showed the disparagy of ODI's played by Sub-continent players compared to English players, I think they the Sub-continent players had played 3-5 times as many ODI's as thier english counter parts.

If you do a comparison of games played by country you can see it clearly, in a 5 year period (Jan 1995-Jan 2000) england only played 79 ODI's, in the Same period India played 166, Pakistan 149, SL 132, Aus 120. In fact in terms of games played of the 9 full members at the time, England were last on the list.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;orderby=matches;spanmax1=01+jan+2000;spanmin1=01+Jan+1995;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

A lot of the Media at the time used to use this as one of the reasons England didnt win the ODI world cup as they, and they said that England should play more ODI's to get more experience so the ECB did what the media suggested as it seemed logical, hence the over kill that crept in.

as a comparision if we look at the last 5 years (Jan 2007 to Jan 2012) you can see that England has moved up the table and is 4th in the list.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;orderby=matches;spanmax2=01+jan+2012;spanmin2=01+jan+2007;spanval2=span;template=results;type=team

But it hasnt increased the chances of winning an ODI world Cup.

Effectively the ICC has killed the proverbial golden goose,and T20i's will go the same way over the next 10-15 years as they tinker with it to make it more 'attractive' to spectators.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Peter Lanky » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:14 am

Apart from the obvious overkill these days, perhaps the ECB could look back at one day cricket as it was in the early 1970s, both international and domestic, and work out why it was so popular then. We had a good product and people loved it. It is only in recent years that T20 has offered an alternative, but one day cricket was in decline well before then, so nobody can say that T20 has taken away it's audience. I think people generally know my views on this and generally disagree with them, but it is possible that if somebody put some effort into sensible research, then it may turn out that the old ways were the best.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:44 am

Peter Lanky wrote:Apart from the obvious overkill these days, perhaps the ECB could look back at one day cricket as it was in the early 1970s, both international and domestic, and work out why it was so popular then. We had a good product and people loved it. It is only in recent years that T20 has offered an alternative, but one day cricket was in decline well before then, so nobody can say that T20 has taken away it's audience. I think people generally know my views on this and generally disagree with them, but it is possible that if somebody put some effort into sensible research, then it may turn out that the old ways were the best.


I agree I dislike all ODI cricket for all the power plays, fielding restrictions and other stupid features (using two balls) that have been introduced over the years.

Over the years the ODI game has swung to a Batsmens game where by 20 years ago scores of 300+ were rare occurances now they're almost common place, as batsmen are free to swing at the ball with very little risk.

THe only reason the second ball was introduced is because batsmen complained they couldnt see the ball when it started to reverse at 30 odd overs and cause them problems (ie Lowering thier batting averages).

I also dont see why we couldnt host a triangular series in the summer between the two visting teams, with 3 qualification games/team and a Final as it would make game more interesting, we're lucky as we have a multi-cultural society, so most games would be reasonably well attended whether England were playing or not.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:46 pm

Interesting interview with Swann on Cricinfo's front page at present, a much more human side to him than we usually see in the media free of any jokes or gaffs and troubling from an English perspective that he is ultimately saying he is going to call time on his career for England early simply because of the pressures that the shedule is putting not only on him but his family also - a theme which KP has brought up over and over again since the birth of his son but is ignored by those who shout merc at him.

At the end of the day I don't think England will make significant improvements in the ODI arena unless we play more of it especially now that we do not play the 50 over format at all at the higher domestic level - a move almost somewhat ironically driven by the finances of the county game.

This will of course lead to either 'overkill' or player burn out but it really doesn't need to, a rotation policy which would be also good long term for England would cover the player aspect and as we all know gates are not the most important money spinner for the ECB.

I used to really enjoy the 50 over format because it blended a strong tatical side of the game, almost more so than test cricket, with an added level of viseral excitement something both my children and grandchildren always enjoyed more than been taken to a first class game, sadly the repeated fafing around with the format has some what dampened this.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Aidan11 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:53 pm

I have to disagree with this rotation policy.

Most England players now have central contracts which takes them out of their counties apart from the odd game each season. How hard is it to play seven tests and a few ODI?

Players don't seem to complain about burnout when they sign up for some extra work in the IPL and other global T20 domestic tournaments.

It's a good job Fred Trueman isn't alive. Imagine explaining all of this to him.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Gingerfinch » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Newman mentions that he now doesn't know how many powerplays, balls are now taken/bowled in a 50 over match. That may have been tongue in cheek but tbh I'm lost when it comes to this.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:01 pm

Just saying it isn't a problem, is sticking your head in the sand, if the players are saying it is.

As I've suggested earlier, older players have to be accommodated. For Stokes, Buttler and Bairstow, playing three formats maybe sounds ideal. Clearly for Strauss, Swann, Pietersen, it isn't. It's not just about the continual cricket. It's about contests that have no apparent importance. England's ODIs this summer are about getting the players in shape for a WC in three years time! That is the official reason for playing them! Their benefit to the young players mentioned is probably real. The more experienced players we risk falling off the end of the conveyor belt.

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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:03 pm

I agree MS the swann interview was very enlightening, but hes probably got to the point in his life where he wants to see his family more often, which who can blame him now that hes got a son, the same goes for KP, and was probably the same for Strauss, and Anderson.

I think that we're getting to the point where by only younger/fringe players will take part in ODI's/T20's and the 'older' cricketers with families, will just focus on tests. Maybe its not such a bad thing as the skills required for the shorter form of the game have changed over the last 15-20 years.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby braveneutral » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:46 pm

Oh, has KP retired? I must have missed it with all of the buzz about Ravi Bopara's timely return to form.
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I suppose.

At times.

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:08 pm

It's not a side we see very often in cricket unlike say football where countless pages are filled up with which designer's dress x's wife happens to have popped out to see the polis eating cake in with the odd notable exeption of for example Gooch's marriage exploding.

There was a very interesting program on depression in cricket that ran last year during which Vaughan was talking to Hoggard and despite the two being fairly close friends Vaughan had little idea about how Hoggard's marriage was collapsing with his wife's post natal depression until during his last tour to New Zealand he turned round and told him in the middle of an over during a very poor spell.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:55 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:It's not a side we see very often in cricket unlike say football where countless pages are filled up with which designer's dress x's wife happens to have popped out to see the polis eating cake in with the odd notable exeption of for example Gooch's marriage exploding.

There was a very interesting program on depression in cricket that ran last year during which Vaughan was talking to Hoggard and despite the two being fairly close friends Vaughan had little idea about how Hoggard's marriage was collapsing with his wife's post natal depression until during his last tour to New Zealand he turned round and told him in the middle of an over during a very poor spell.


I saw the Vaughan program, but thought it was more about depression after retirement at the end of their careers rather than during it, or was that a different one.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:04 pm

OffStumpYorker wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:It's not a side we see very often in cricket unlike say football where countless pages are filled up with which designer's dress x's wife happens to have popped out to see the polis eating cake in with the odd notable exeption of for example Gooch's marriage exploding.

There was a very interesting program on depression in cricket that ran last year during which Vaughan was talking to Hoggard and despite the two being fairly close friends Vaughan had little idea about how Hoggard's marriage was collapsing with his wife's post natal depression until during his last tour to New Zealand he turned round and told him in the middle of an over during a very poor spell.


I saw the Vaughan program, but thought it was more about depression after retirement at the end of their careers rather than during it, or was that a different one.


Most of it was. though the Hoggard interview which I can't remember if it was during the program or seperate as part of the TMS / BBC coverage of the program was about his trouble during the tail end of his career especially about his marriage and New Zealand.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby mikesiva » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:24 pm

England's_No7 wrote:
cricketfan90 wrote:there was some cracking debate today on SS1 between, nasser, athers.....bumble,beefy about this issue and the anderson one today, was very good, did anyone else see it?

Yes. I see you didn't mention Nick Knight. ;)


Yeah Knight, talk nah?
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