The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:07 pm

sussexpob wrote:My question.....

Is it sensible/correct to leave out the previous player of the tournament in 2009, and arguably England's best ever ODI/T20 batter, when you have no one near his quality to replace him? The answer is obviously no. The small print is something I dont give two hoots about. If he wants to play and he makes the team much better, you play him.

The ECB should not have the right to question a players availability, and imo, the selectors job is to pick the best available team for any given match.... if a player makes himself unavailable then you dont pick him, if he is on form(and KP is) and he is clearly good enough to walk into the team, you pick him if available.


I would say that england will miss KP, BUT, no one player is bigger than the team, when that starts to happen you end up with what happened in 2006-2008. Where factions start to form and people lookout for number one, which generally ends up in the whole team underperforming.

This is the point that is being missed, the england cricket team will continue to play cricket with or without KP, they may actually improve without him, the may also underperform without him, but we wont know unless we try, and so far England have done well without him, though that was against a low ranked WI's team and an under-prepared and inexperienced australian team.

We also forget that this isnt the first time this has happened, Boycott tried it in the 70's when he got miffed at not being made captain.

Its this "Team England" superiority complex that I really dont like about Flower's England team. I mean yes, I completely agree with central contracts and the new non-knee jerk loyalty that has allowed players out of form to stay in the team and become better players for it.... the England team is a solid unit.... but there needs to be compromise.


I'm sorry but every great team has to have a superiority complex its what give them presence on the field, look bakc at the australian side of the 90's and 2000's they oozed superiority, not because they necessarily had it but because the backed themselves and the performances flowed. THe same can be said of the West indies of the 75-90's, of Huttons england, Bradmans Invicibles and other teams of the past.

I mean Flower is the coach of the team, not a policy setter for the ECB, and certainly not the voice of the paying fans and public who pay their money to see KP over many others in the team.


No his official title is Director of Cricket, which means hes more than a coach and sits on the selection panel, it also gives him input into the terms he wants in the Central contract.

I challenge any England fan, or any cricket lover, to tell me the sport of limited overs cricket is better without KP!!


I definately wont say that the game is better without KP, but that doesnt mean its any worse, all players reach a point where they hang up thier gloves for the last time, butt he game goes on.

As for the IPL thing, I also challenge anyone on this board to tell me they wouldnt want to have their cake and eat it. A player wanting his profession to pay the best wage at the expense of playing for country? I would, no doubt, think about limiting my test career to earn a million dollars easy money over a month... I doubt many of the moral crew here would too!


In that case why doesnt he leave the whole thing behind if he can live off his IPL & T20 salaries then so be it, thats his choice, but as I've said with Gayle, what confidence does it give fresh players that england draft in to cover for KP only to be told to sod off when he deems he wants to play an international, that leads to an unsettled team and apathy, among the players.

Personally If I was offered the opportunity to earn 3 times my salary as a contractor during my holidays I wouldnt do it, for two reasons, (1) I think its morally wrong to do so, (2) I'd probably get sacked for breach of contract, especially if it was for a rival.
'To Beer or Not to Beer, that is the Question, whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The hangover and pains of outrageous lager'
User avatar
OffStumpYorker
 
Posts: 3955
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, England (naturally), Sheffield Wednesday (for my sins)

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby battingforbell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:12 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:I agree with Sussex above. And I've been sympathetic to KPs position over many pages here. But I can't go as far as him absenting himself for the IPL period each year. And missing Tests. But I also don't believe the stories.

Nothing wrong with KP making himself available for the whole of the IPL. With best wishes from everyone who has enjoyed his huge contribution to English cricket. But then select another player in his place.


I think the available compromise is dont schedule tests that early in the summer, or have a worldwide window opened up by the boards so their players can play in the IPL. You dont see FIFA organising world cups while major domestic football competitions is on do you?

Every cricketer in the world should have the right to play in the IPL! There is too much personal gain and financial pressures to make people forget their pockets and wear their nations arm on the sleeve..... anyone in the England team who doesnt think this is probably a terrible T20 player!

There is too much international cricket.... take out the needless ODI series England have played this summer against Australia and move the start of the International calendar to later in the summer.


OK. Nothing to do with KP now. I hate the IPL. I've watched it for two years and can't bear the incessant hype and cheer leading. It diminishes cricket for me. Maybe if you are in India in the crowd one or two games might be real fun. But the whole tournament on TV is a turn-off. Diminishing returns. By contrast I love Test cricket. I loved the West Indies Series just gone. I loved the way the personalities shine through. The ebb and flow of the games. Marlon Samuels and Captain Sammy were a joy. As was Roach before he became injured. When England lost 3 top wickets - including KP's - for next to nothing the drama was amazing. If KP wants to give this up for prancing around in gold cricket pads like some gladiatorial Ninja he is welcome. But leave the English cricket season alone. The 'needless' ODIs against Australia had far more meaning against the old enemy. Who cares about the Deccan Chargers or whatever?
battingforbell
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:19 pm
Team(s) Supported: England, Durham, Warwickshire

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:13 pm

battingforbell wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
battingforbell wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
As for the Moores KP saga, it had Flintoff's finger prints all over it.


I think you are looking for the wrong finger prints.


The whole motivation for actually presing ahead with what was ultimately a very good move for English Cricket was the suggestion that the dressing room would side with the captain over the coach, something that never materialised.

That bird in the captain's ear was Fred.


England players said, you charge, KP, we're right behind you. And when Kevin looked round, there was no one there.


Interesting but no. Flintoff supported Moores. There was a mysterious player who leaked the story in the belief that it would benefit KP. He was in mobile phone contact with KP. KP wanted to get rid of Moores and Flower he also wanted Vaughan restored to the side. If you remember Vaughan had fallen out with Moores prior to his resignation. The mysterious player was later identified as Vaughan. He never denied it.


I never said Flintoff was supporting KP now did I.

Vaughan has admited his part in leaking the story, and it was the start of the downward spiral that has plagued the man since he left the England side. The true betrayal happened in the dressing room where certain players convinced KP that they would stand with him again Moores if KP decide to use his position of Captain.

The one part of the KP story I am looking forward to hearing when he retires is whether or not he still thinks that was the right thing to do; Flower is probably the best thing to have happened to the England side and his combintation with Strauss has been exceptional, I remember KP making very altruistic comments about the whole thing prior to the Ashes.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:15 pm

OffStumpYorker wrote:
all players reach a point where they hang up thier gloves for the last time, butt the game goes on.



Wonderful typo!
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:15 pm

sussexpob wrote:
I think the available compromise is dont schedule tests that early in the summer, or have a worldwide window opened up by the boards so their players can play in the IPL. You dont see FIFA organising world cups while major domestic football competitions is on do you?


FIFA is about to do that when the WC is in the middle east as FIFA are looking to force it into the middle of the European Football season, which will disrupt the European season considerably.

If the ECB where to move the Early season to say June/july there wouldnt be any room for ODI's in the schedule unless they cut all series to 3 test series, which judging by the reaction to Sa being a 3 test series is not a good idea. If they cut an entire series it would mean they couldnt fullfil the 4/5 year FTP commitments that they are required to do by the ICC.

Its not as if we have an 7-8 month summer like most other countries, we have at best 5 months which means something else had to give.
'To Beer or Not to Beer, that is the Question, whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The hangover and pains of outrageous lager'
User avatar
OffStumpYorker
 
Posts: 3955
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, England (naturally), Sheffield Wednesday (for my sins)

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:17 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
OffStumpYorker wrote:
all players reach a point where they hang up thier gloves for the last time, butt the game goes on.



Wonderful typo!


Well spotted,
'To Beer or Not to Beer, that is the Question, whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The hangover and pains of outrageous lager'
User avatar
OffStumpYorker
 
Posts: 3955
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, England (naturally), Sheffield Wednesday (for my sins)

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Making_Splinters » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:23 pm

OffStumpYorker wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
OffStumpYorker wrote:
all players reach a point where they hang up thier gloves for the last time, butt the game goes on.



Wonderful typo!


Well spotted,


Definitely made me chuckle.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby ddb » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 pm

battingforbell wrote:I hate the IPL. I've watched it for two years and can't bear the incessant hype and cheer leading. It diminishes cricket for me. Maybe if you are in India in the crowd one or two games might be real fun. But the whole tournament on TV is a turn-off. Diminishing returns. By contrast I love Test cricket. I loved the West Indies Series just gone. I loved the way the personalities shine through. The ebb and flow of the games. Marlon Samuels and Captain Sammy were a joy. As was Roach before he became injured. When England lost 3 top wickets - including KP's - for next to nothing the drama was amazing. If KP wants to give this up for prancing around in gold cricket pads like some gladiatorial Ninja he is welcome. But leave the English cricket season alone. The 'needless' ODIs against Australia had far more meaning against the old enemy. Who cares about the Deccan Chargers or whatever?


Clearly didn't watch the recent IPL if it was TV turn off. Unless you don't like t20's it was hard not to sort of like most of his edition, obviously not near the drama of that Aus/WI test but lots of last over finishes, it didn't drag like previous editions. If you watched only Deccan though, this is probably an accurate post. IPL final had more viewers than the England/WI test on the same day in England so it's working, people care, somewhere.
Intent

IPL 2009 Prediction League Champion 2009-10 footy prediction guru Joint 2010 footy final placings guru 2010 Eng vs Bang combined prediction guru 2011 World Cup Fantasy
User avatar
ddb
 
Posts: 19376
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:54 pm
Location: Kohlism

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:31 pm

Kim wrote:They never identified who leaked the story. KP thinks it was Giles Clarke


Wasn't Vaughan retired by then? I think so. He wasn't coming back anyway.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 88339
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Kim » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:
Kim wrote:They never identified who leaked the story. KP thinks it was Giles Clarke


Wasn't Vaughan retired by then? I think so. He wasn't coming back anyway.


Think he retired at the start of the next summer when it became clear he wsnt getting in the ashes team.

Steve James - in his book the PLan - goes into the whole Kp/Moores thing in a lot of detail.
The Kookaburra Man
User avatar
Kim
 
Posts: 3897
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:06 pm

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:39 pm

Thanks.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 88339
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby battingforbell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 pm

ddb wrote:
battingforbell wrote:I hate the IPL. I've watched it for two years and can't bear the incessant hype and cheer leading. It diminishes cricket for me. Maybe if you are in India in the crowd one or two games might be real fun. But the whole tournament on TV is a turn-off. Diminishing returns. By contrast I love Test cricket. I loved the West Indies Series just gone. I loved the way the personalities shine through. The ebb and flow of the games. Marlon Samuels and Captain Sammy were a joy. As was Roach before he became injured. When England lost 3 top wickets - including KP's - for next to nothing the drama was amazing. If KP wants to give this up for prancing around in gold cricket pads like some gladiatorial Ninja he is welcome. But leave the English cricket season alone. The 'needless' ODIs against Australia had far more meaning against the old enemy. Who cares about the Deccan Chargers or whatever?


Clearly didn't watch the recent IPL if it was TV turn off. Unless you don't like t20's it was hard not to sort of like most of his edition, obviously not near the drama of that Aus/WI test but lots of last over finishes, it didn't drag like previous editions. If you watched only Deccan though, this is probably an accurate post.


I did try to watch. Last over finishes don't justify for me the repetitive nature of the preceding cricket. I did enjoy the freshness of the spectacle two years ago, but it has worn thin for me. If you are Indian and support a particular team I can see you might well be more engaged. I attached myself to certain Indian players at first like Ganguly who has always been a favourite of mine. But this year I kept switching it off. If you really like cricket, is it that interesting? The best part is the fielding.
battingforbell
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:19 pm
Team(s) Supported: England, Durham, Warwickshire

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby D/L » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Kim wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:
Kim wrote:They never identified who leaked the story. KP thinks it was Giles Clarke


Wasn't Vaughan retired by then? I think so. He wasn't coming back anyway.


Think he retired at the start of the next summer when it became clear he wsnt getting in the ashes team.

Steve James - in his book the PLan - goes into the whole Kp/Moores thing in a lot of detail.

Pietersen didn’t cover himself with glory in that episode and then further tarnished his image with his comments in the media, whilst Moores maintained a dignified silence. To many that was not the first time Pietersen suggested he may be a bit of a prima donna. There can be little doubt now.

Good point made about the shortness of the English summer. No way should we reduce the number of tests we are able to play in this country for the sake of a domestic hit and giggle competition.
User avatar
D/L
 
Posts: 9154
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:08 pm
Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC.

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby OffStumpYorker » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Kim wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:
Kim wrote:They never identified who leaked the story. KP thinks it was Giles Clarke


Wasn't Vaughan retired by then? I think so. He wasn't coming back anyway.


Think he retired at the start of the next summer when it became clear he wsnt getting in the ashes team.

Steve James - in his book the PLan - goes into the whole Kp/Moores thing in a lot of detail.


Vaughan didnt play for england after the Oval test in 2008, though he may hve still kept his options open he was never a serious candidate for selection after that point.
'To Beer or Not to Beer, that is the Question, whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The hangover and pains of outrageous lager'
User avatar
OffStumpYorker
 
Posts: 3955
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: London
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, England (naturally), Sheffield Wednesday (for my sins)

Re: Kevin Pietersen retires from limited overs cricket

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:52 pm

How good the IPL is, is largely irrelevant. (The commentary makes it impossible for me to watch, by the way.) The only thing that matters is that most of the players want to play in it.

There's a good reason not to schedule internationals to coincide with it is, we end up playing matches against understrength opposition.

I'd like us to play ODIs in this period. But apparently, Sky have a say in the scheduling, and they don't want ODIs to be on during the football season.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 88339
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest