The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[D/L]

One man’s friendly banter can quite easily be another man’s unacceptable insult. I don't believe the recipients of the texts were the actual target of them.

I would expect that someone who has turned into a symbol of South African domestic failures, who has a mind blowing record vs South Africa in ODIs(averages over a run a ball 64 in nearly 20 matches), who has just knocked your attack around for fun in the last match, and who has previous history with your captian and management and unkind words exchanged before between the two parties.... would not garner much support from his opposition.

Graham Smith for instance would probably be the first to jump on KP's back if there was a hint of truth in how bad these texts were.... I dont understand why South Africa would protect KP, they have bad history together.

As I replied to sp’s original post, Pietersen seems to have done all the hard work for them. All the South African’s need to do now is maintain a diplomatic silence. They have their result.

[SaintPowelly]

So why did the SA manager say that ECB haven't made an approach to see those messages? Do they have some detectives or cell phone hackers?

They dont need to look at SA players phones, if they have already viewed KPs

If they had seen it ECB wouldn't have said we will give him a chance until 2.30 PM to deny that he hasn't sent derogatory messages.

They didnt, they said he had until 2:30 to acknowledge and apologise, didnt they ?

[D/L]

One man’s friendly banter can quite easily be another man’s unacceptable insult. I don't believe the recipients of the texts were the actual target of them.

I would expect that someone who has turned into a symbol of South African domestic failures, who has a mind blowing record vs South Africa in ODIs(averages over a run a ball 64 in nearly 20 matches), who has just knocked your attack around for fun in the last match, and who has previous history with your captian and management and unkind words exchanged before between the two parties.... would not garner much support from his opposition.

Graham Smith for instance would probably be the first to jump on KP's back if there was a hint of truth in how bad these texts were.... I dont understand why South Africa would protect KP, they have bad history together.

KP didnt defend himself either, he couldnt confirm he didnt send messages.

But how can ECB assume that something bad was sent.

Oh, for crying out loud! Pietersen has not denied the allegations. Why wouldn’t he if he is entirely innocent?

[greyblazer]

So why did the SA manager say that ECB haven't made an approach to see those messages? Do they have some detectives or cell phone hackers?

They dont need to look at SA players phones, if they have already viewed KPs

If they had seen it ECB wouldn't have said we will give him a chance until 2.30 PM to deny that he hasn't sent derogatory messages.

They didnt, they said he had until 2:30 to acknowledge and apologise, didnt they ?

"A fundamental item was to confirm publicly that no derogatory texts had been sent by Kevin to the South African team. This has not been forthcoming despite clear timelines being set to allow the selectors to pick the squad for the third Investec Test match"

[SaintPowelly]

So why did the SA manager say that ECB haven't made an approach to see those messages? Do they have some detectives or cell phone hackers?

They dont need to look at SA players phones, if they have already viewed KPs

If they had seen it ECB wouldn't have said we will give him a chance until 2.30 PM to deny that he hasn't sent derogatory messages.

They didnt, they said he had until 2:30 to acknowledge and apologise, didnt they ?

"A fundamental item was to confirm publicly that no derogatory texts had been sent by Kevin to the South African team. This has not been forthcoming despite clear timelines being set to allow the selectors to pick the squad for the third Investec Test match"

Your arguing against yourself here

[hopeforthebest]

sussexpob your ingrained hatred of all things ECB is blinding you to the straight forward facts. This whole episode started by Pietersen tweeting insulting comments about Nick Night and have ended in him texting derogatory remarks about Strauss and Andy Flower.

[meninblue]

I can understand a cricketer having problem with one player or two. But he had issues with South African cricket board when he was young, now with English cricket board, then Moores, Andy and some other English players. Why is everyone having an issue adjusting only with KP.

And the Nottinghamshire and Hampshire dressing rooms hate him too.

What were those issues regarding

Hope he does not breaks with his IPL team

His ego, and expecting special treatment whilst not mixing with rest of squad.

Thanks for the information.

Actually i was of the perception that Andy was naturally calm, cool and composed guy. So atleast KP should have adjusted well with him.

[D/L]

So why did the SA manager say that ECB haven't made an approach to see those messages? Do they have some detectives or cell phone hackers?

They dont need to look at SA players phones, if they have already viewed KPs

If they had seen it ECB wouldn't have said we will give him a chance until 2.30 PM to deny that he hasn't sent derogatory messages.

That’s a new one. Thanks for varying them and keeping them coming, gb!

It may be just possible though, that the ECB needed a little more time, either to prepare the press release or to extend the deadline for Pietersen to apologise.

[D/L]

A fundamental item was to confirm publicly that no derogatory texts had been sent by Kevin to the South African team. This has not been forthcoming despite clear timelines being set to allow the selectors to pick the squad for the third Investec Test match"

Your arguing against yourself here

It would seem so, SP.

[sussexpob]

One man’s friendly banter can quite easily be another man’s unacceptable insult. I don't believe the recipients of the texts were the actual target of them.

I would expect that someone who has turned into a symbol of South African domestic failures, who has a mind blowing record vs South Africa in ODIs(averages over a run a ball 64 in nearly 20 matches), who has just knocked your attack around for fun in the last match, and who has previous history with your captian and management and unkind words exchanged before between the two parties.... would not garner much support from his opposition.

Graham Smith for instance would probably be the first to jump on KP's back if there was a hint of truth in how bad these texts were.... I dont understand why South Africa would protect KP, they have bad history together.

KP didnt defend himself either, he couldnt confirm he didnt send messages.

I was always under the assumption that it was innocent until proven guilty... if no one can prove you are guily then you are innocent.... There is no burden on the innocent man to prove he is innocent!

[D/L]

One man’s friendly banter can quite easily be another man’s unacceptable insult. I don't believe the recipients of the texts were the actual target of them.

I would expect that someone who has turned into a symbol of South African domestic failures, who has a mind blowing record vs South Africa in ODIs(averages over a run a ball 64 in nearly 20 matches), who has just knocked your attack around for fun in the last match, and who has previous history with your captian and management and unkind words exchanged before between the two parties.... would not garner much support from his opposition.

Graham Smith for instance would probably be the first to jump on KP's back if there was a hint of truth in how bad these texts were.... I dont understand why South Africa would protect KP, they have bad history together.

KP didnt defend himself either, he couldnt confirm he didnt send messages.

I was always under the assumption that it was innocent until proven guilty... if no one can prove you are guily then you are innocent.... There is no burden on the innocent man to prove he is innocent!

I would have thought an innocent man would have issued a denial though. Apparently, Pietersen was asked to sign something to the effect that he had not insulted a fellow team member in a text message to the opposition, but refused to do so.

The caveat to that is that I do not know if it is true.

If were talking legalities though, it is the sort of thing a decent legal team advising the ECB would have suggested they do.

[yorker_129-7]

This is all very simple to resolve. If KP thinks he has done no wrong he should have showed the texts to the ECB and they would have likely reinstated him. That he has not done so speaks volumes, and indicates to pretty much everyone that the chances therefore are he was indeed engaged in it. Put it this way, if I were to start slagging off my boss to people who didn't work for the company I'd likely be fired, and rightly so. Why should KP be treated any differently?

[Robert]

One man’s friendly banter can quite easily be another man’s unacceptable insult. I don't believe the recipients of the texts were the actual target of them.

I would expect that someone who has turned into a symbol of South African domestic failures, who has a mind blowing record vs South Africa in ODIs(averages over a run a ball 64 in nearly 20 matches), who has just knocked your attack around for fun in the last match, and who has previous history with your captian and management and unkind words exchanged before between the two parties.... would not garner much support from his opposition.

Graham Smith for instance would probably be the first to jump on KP's back if there was a hint of truth in how bad these texts were.... I dont understand why South Africa would protect KP, they have bad history together.

KP didnt defend himself either, he couldnt confirm he didnt send messages.

I was always under the assumption that it was innocent until proven guilty... if no one can prove you are guily then you are innocent.... There is no burden on the innocent man to prove he is innocent!

This is team selection, not a court of law!

[sussexpob]

I would have thought an innocent man would have issued a denial though. Apparently, Pietersen was asked to sign something to the effect that he had not insulted a fellow team member in a text message to the opposition, but refused to do so.

The caveat to that is that I do not know if it is true.

If were talking legalities though, it is the sort of thing a decent legal team advising the ECB would have suggested they do.

If someone approached you and asked you to sign a document saying that you had to prove innocence for crime they had insufficient evidence to suggest you had committed, would you sign that document? Would you then accept with no conditions of your own to allow them to scrutinise private conversations to assess your innocence as well...

Would you **** !!!! I wouldnt, you wouldnt, no one with a brain would. If someone wanted to find me guilty of something I hadnt done I would also rightfully ignore or fail to acknowledge their request to prove my innocence.

Im pretty sure that is what our justice and human rights systems are based on.... but obviously KP's case is way past the normal bounds of Justice and personal rights!!

This is team selection, not a court of law!

Try looking up the defamation Act and come back Robert...

[D/L]

If someone approached you and asked you to sign a document saying that you had to prove innocence for crime they had insufficient evidence to suggest you had committed, would you sign that document? Would you then accept with no conditions of your own to allow them to scrutinise private conversations to assess your innocence as well...

Would you **** !!!! I wouldnt, you wouldnt, no one with a brain would. If someone wanted to find me guilty of something I hadnt done I would also rightfully ignore or fail to acknowledge their request to prove my innocence...

OK, assuming for a moment that Pietersen is innocent of the allegations, why would he not, in order to continue his test career and hold onto hope of a favourable negotiation of his central contract in September, put his name to a piece of paper?

It seems a far more likely explanation that there was another reason for Pietersen’s reluctance to sign.