The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[meninblue]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

[Making_Splinters]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

Yet Sachin and Dravid both acheived much success under Ganguly who was certianly not the best dressing room man the game has seen.

[meninblue]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

Yet Sachin and Dravid both acheived much success under Ganguly who was certianly not the best dressing room man the game has seen.

Saurav used to demand a lot of selection power. He backed his selected players a lot though. There were rifts in Indian team even when Azhar was captain. But did Sachin and Rahul cause those rifts during tenure of various captains they played under to become successful test cricketers. No IMO. Still they could achieve what cricketers wish to achieve.

Splinters, Samit's approach towards success does not appeals to me at all. It has nothing to do about cricket but it has to do with how i think and how he thinks about success. Success for me is important but not more important than ways used to achieve success. There is a clear cut clash of thinking, so i do not agree what Samit says, just for the purpose of agreeing. Let Samit achieve success at all cost if it's his style.

[Making_Splinters]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

Yet Sachin and Dravid both acheived much success under Ganguly who was certianly not the best dressing room man the game has seen.

Saurav used to demand a lot of selection power. He backed his selected players a lot though. There were rifts in Indian team even when Azhar was captain. But did Sachin and Rahul cause those rifts during tenure of various captains they played under to become successful test cricketers. No IMO. Still they could achieve what cricketers wish to achieve.

Splinters, Samit's approach towards success does not appeals to me at all. It has nothing to do about cricket but it has to do with how i think and how he thinks about success. Success for me is important but not more important than ways used to achieve success. There is a clear cut clash of thinking, so i do not agree what Samit says, just for the purpose of agreeing. Let Samit achieve success at all cost if it's his style.

The only thing that is important is whether or not a team can put aside any personal differences and play as a team on the field, which is what I read Sambit's article as saying ultimately, same goes for the teams that Sachin and Dravid played in through their careers, the great Australians, the lesser Australians and the West Indies teams.

[meninblue]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

Yet Sachin and Dravid both acheived much success under Ganguly who was certianly not the best dressing room man the game has seen.

Saurav used to demand a lot of selection power. He backed his selected players a lot though. There were rifts in Indian team even when Azhar was captain. But did Sachin and Rahul cause those rifts during tenure of various captains they played under to become successful test cricketers. No IMO. Still they could achieve what cricketers wish to achieve.

Splinters, Samit's approach towards success does not appeals to me at all. It has nothing to do about cricket but it has to do with how i think and how he thinks about success. Success for me is important but not more important than ways used to achieve success. There is a clear cut clash of thinking, so i do not agree what Samit says, just for the purpose of agreeing. Let Samit achieve success at all cost if it's his style.

The only thing that is important is whether or not a team can put aside any personal differences and play as a team on the field, which is what I read Sambit's article as saying ultimately, same goes for the teams that Sachin and Dravid played in through their careers, the great Australians, the lesser Australians and the West Indies teams.

The differences will get more stronger when all the humble personalities like Sachin, VVS and Rahul have retired. Their presence will be felt by Dhoni, not just as superior cricketers, but for their excellent influence on the team.

[OffStumpYorker]

MS, I agree to a point, but if theres back biting and sniping at each other in the dressing room then no amount of pulling together as a team on the field can help, as it will bubble over at some point with a player dropping a catch and then the dressing room problems bubble over onto the field.

you look at any team with a split dressing room and they fall apart on the field, Pakistan did it in 2010 (aus), there were tensions in the Aus team in 2010/11, especially between katich and Clarke, SL 2011 under dilshan were similar.

In english cricket there are 3/4 instances I can think off where the dressing room were at loggerheads, England in the 81 ashes, seniors vs botham, the infamous Gooch vs gower Spat in the 1990/91 ashes, the KP vs Moores spat in 2008.

In the end they have to have a common goal, without that they wont pull together and thats been part of the problem for the last 9 months, not all KP's fault, its just hes been the biggest scape goat.

I've heard this refered to as the Yoko factor, Yoko ono got the blame for the beatles splitting up, but the rifts were already there she just became the focal point.

[Aidan11]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-world-t ... 78545.html

[Making_Splinters]

Indeed there is a tipping point, OSY, as we saw wiht for example Pakistan where dressing room issue actually took physical form on the field with players underperforming.

To a large degree it's not about respect or civility but simply whether or not you can trust the other players in the team to give their all when they are on the field which is essentially why teams who had groups of individuals that really didn't get on like Ponting's Australians managed to leave the issues in the dressing room because at the end of the day they all wanted the team to win.

That forme is where the actual issue lies, not some wishy washy thing were people have to mutually respect each other but they have to be able to trust each other regardless of what they think off the field of a person and if they can not then they certainly should not be playing regardless of how good they are.

[yorker_129-7]

The problem is that teams need talent to be great, but when that talent is such a disruptive influence how can a team ever be great if they're falling out amongst themselves? Take Mario Ballotelli as an example from a different sport, here is a man who has all the talent you could ask for. Is he a team player? Well nothing I have ever seen, read or heard gives that impression. You can put the eleven best players in the world together in a cricket team, doesn't mean they'd be a good team.

The ICC World XI which played Australia several years ago proved that.

[OffStumpYorker]

M_s, and that is exactly where the problem has been, recently they havent been pulling together on the pitch or seemed to have a common goal, that goal changed as soon as they became #1, some players started to believe the hype (not just KP), where they beleived they just needed to turn up to win, as all other teams would quake.

I've just read Strauss's comments after the close and you can see why he probably didnt score runs, as his mind wasnt on the game with the fall out of the last week-10 days, all the media attention, fielding questions about KP etc, thats why KPs going to have a hard time getting back into the dressing room as the trust seems to have evaporated.

It appeared to be back in this test to soem degree with the middle and lower order getting runs, I think the last 5 wickets put on 150+ runs in both innings.

Like you i've seen a lot of english cricket, after the 2005 ashes we seemed to be on top of the world then it all derailed, some through injuries, some through ego's getting too big and no one controlling that. I think the same has happened again, after reaching number one, the old insecurities, surfaced, probably not helped after the Pakistan series, then a closer than should have been WI series.

they all need to have some time off, maybe sit around the campfire singing a few choruses of kum-ba-yah. It will be interesting to see the WC squad and whos picked, I have a feeling there will be some surprise exclusions, eg Broad & Swann, with Morgan being made captain.

[D/L]

Just to confirm the inevitable; Pietersen has not been selected for either the ODI series against SA or the World T20 squad.

[andy]

there's a shock

[Dilbert]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

What Sambit is saying is that unity will not win you matches, talent will.
Sachin and Rahul were not disruptive like KP, so you cant compare them to him.

For a more apt example, look at Gayle and WI. Without Gayle, there was certainly more unity in the WI team, but no success. Once he came back, things didnt seem very comfortable between him, the coach and Sammy (though not to the extent of whats happening with KP), but the results are there for all to see.

This is what Sambit is implying, and he is absolutely bang on target with this one.

Oh, and someone earlier commented that he would'nt take Sambit seriously as he hasnt played test cricket.... well, no one on this forum has too... including the said poster. Wonder if the said poster takes himself seriously while commenting on cricketing issues?

[meninblue]

Quote Sambit:Success can be achieved without unity and stability but rarely without skills.

The basics of his thinking itself is wrong. Unity is more important in a team game. Sachin, Rahul and many other cricketers have shown that better success than what KP has achieved in test cricket can be achieved by being aligned with the team. Sambit is encouraging players to be what the think tank and coaches do not want the players to do.

What Sambit is saying is that unity will not win you matches, talent will.
Sachin and Rahul were not disruptive like KP, so you cant compare them to him.

For a more apt example, look at Gayle and WI. Without Gayle, there was certainly more unity in the WI team, but no success. Once he came back, things didnt seem very comfortable between him, the coach and Sammy (though not to the extent of whats happening with KP), but the results are there for all to see.

This is what Sambit is implying, and he is absolutely bang on target with this one.

Oh, and someone earlier commented that he would'nt take Sambit seriously as he hasnt played test cricket.... well, no one on this forum has too... including the said poster. Wonder if the said poster takes himself seriously while commenting on cricketing issues?

Whom are you referring to?

[Dilbert]

I dont know, i saw that comment on this thread... or some other thread a couple of days ago. Cant remember who said it.
Anyway, I was half joking there... dont take it too seriously.