The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[shankycricket]

sussex your continual boosting of KP by denigrating Bell just shows how desperate you are. This is, nor has ever been about KP's talent or that of any other player, trying to make it so just shows how little you and KP's other sympathisers have grasped the situation.

forgive me.... as you have quite rightly put, my fatal error in this discussion was to assume that the national team of a country is to be picked on talent lines and not personality lines.

I look forward to Keith Lemon's England debut.

SP,

Did you read the article by Steve James? He indicates Strauss left a straight one as he was perhaps distracted

If that is indeed true and I won't be surprised if it is, then serious questions need to be asked over Strauss' credentials as an international batsman. But of course, the media will do the lazy thing and blame KP. Strauss and Flower could do no wrong, of course. We all know that the sun shines out of their arse.

[hopeforthebest]

"I look forward to Keith Lemon's England debut."


sussex, if that isn't a facetious remark what is.

[shankycricket]

Off topic....

[sussexpob]

"I look forward to Keith Lemon's England debut."


sussex, if that isn't a facetious remark what is.

No, I apologise. Keith Lemon would never be suitable..... Andrew Strauss would be too busy thinking about his comedy performance inbetween innings to be able to hit a straight ball on his stumps.

[meninblue]

What date has Strauss postponed his meeting with KP

[sussexpob]

Just out of interest, who here has played sport at a club level?

See I have played club cricket, I played junior rugby to a pretty high standard, and in my younger 20's I was a decent enough semi proffesional climber...

Now in none of those pursuits, albeit none at the top level(although one inside which there was a high risk of death or serious injury) would I have ever substitued a friend for performance. And I dont think, even at a low level, other people I played with would disagree.

When push comes to shove, especially with climbing, you have to know that the other guy behind or in front of you has the skills to perform... Id take my worst enemy up a mountain if I knew he had the toughness and skills to cope under pressure, and I wanted to win in sport, I found playing with friends was more annoying because being up to the standard and playing well is all that mattered. I have fallen out with friends and stopped playing 7 a side football recently because I found that playing with people and losing all the time was no fun.... its annoying to work your ass off and see others not care, or not put the effort in to perform.

Maybe its the fine margins of my past climbs that make me this way, because as I said, you could be killed and getting out safely was even more important than success of a climb.... but in most of the team environments I have been in, there was never a question of performance being compromised by anything else. If anything, I found that guys who were the best made great team players simply because they took the pressure off the others.

Maybe its just me, but I cant see how such a good performer can be jettisoned as a non team player.... everything else is just by the way side. A team lives and dies by its performance, and in those terms, KP is the best.

I suggest some people review what they think makes a good team. Surely all that matters is contributions and final results?

[hopeforthebest]

Just out of interest, who here has played sport at a club level?

See I have played club cricket, I played junior rugby to a pretty high standard, and in my younger 20's I was a decent enough semi proffesional climber...

Now in none of those pursuits, albeit none at the top level(although one inside which there was a high risk of death or serious injury) would I have ever substitued a friend for performance. And I dont think, even at a low level, other people I played with would disagree.

When push comes to shove, especially with climbing, you have to know that the other guy behind or in front of you has the skills to perform... Id take my worst enemy up a mountain if I knew he had the toughness and skills to cope under pressure, and I wanted to win in sport, I found playing with friends was more annoying because being up to the standard and playing well is all that mattered. I have fallen out with friends and stopped playing 7 a side football recently because I found that playing with people and losing all the time was no fun.... its annoying to work your ass off and see others not care, or not put the effort in to perform.

Maybe its the fine margins of my past climbs that make me this way, because as I said, you could be killed and getting out safely was even more important than success of a climb.... but in most of the team environments I have been in, there was never a question of performance being compromised by anything else. If anything, I found that guys who were the best made great team players simply because they took the pressure off the others.

Maybe its just me, but I cant see how such a good performer can be jettisoned as a non team player.... everything else is just by the way side. A team lives and dies by its performance, and in those terms, KP is the best.

Reading that makes me blieve you should be playing for England.

[sussexpob]

Reading that makes me blieve you should be playing for England.

You'd have the opposite opinion if you seen me play cricket

[yorker_129-7]

So he didnt help you get there, he didnt help you while you were there. Where exactly did he get his 50 avg from then?

You do realise he was playing before 2009, right?

No-one is denying KP is a good player, but it is debatable at best whether he is worth the extra man management skills to keep him in order.

In real terms, without KP's runs in the last 5 tests, we would have lost to Sri Lanka 2-0 and been whitewashed by South Africa.

Instead we drew 1-1, and could have, given more time, went into the South Africa final test with more confidence and at 1-1...

And if he'd played in the last test he might have hooked straight down Tahirs throat at deep backward square leg first ball in both innings. You see, anyone can manufacture reality. You don't have any proof someone else wouldn't have made those runs.

[sussexpob]

So he didnt help you get there, he didnt help you while you were there. Where exactly did he get his 50 avg from then?

You do realise he was playing before 2009, right?

No-one is denying KP is a good player, but it is debatable at best whether he is worth the extra man management skills to keep him in order.

In real terms, without KP's runs in the last 5 tests, we would have lost to Sri Lanka 2-0 and been whitewashed by South Africa.

Instead we drew 1-1, and could have, given more time, went into the South Africa final test with more confidence and at 1-1...

And if he'd played in the last test he might have hooked straight down Tahirs throat at deep backward square leg first ball in both innings. You see, anyone can manufacture reality. You don't have any proof someone else wouldn't have made those runs.

And reality is, he saved the series in Sri Lanka with an aggressive and masterful innings, and his innings at Headlingley turned a stuttering England performance into a possible victory

[Kim]

The reaility is his performances are irrlevant in all this.

But we were one nil down with him anyway.

And his replacement did very well.

[greyblazer]

So he didnt help you get there, he didnt help you while you were there. Where exactly did he get his 50 avg from then?

You do realise he was playing before 2009, right?

No-one is denying KP is a good player, but it is debatable at best whether he is worth the extra man management skills to keep him in order.

In real terms, without KP's runs in the last 5 tests, we would have lost to Sri Lanka 2-0 and been whitewashed by South Africa.

Instead we drew 1-1, and could have, given more time, went into the South Africa final test with more confidence and at 1-1...

And if he'd played in the last test he might have hooked straight down Tahirs throat at deep backward square leg first ball in both innings. You see, anyone can manufacture reality. You don't have any proof someone else wouldn't have made those runs.

Just a good player? I have seen everything now. It is never about 1 test though. As more matches are played England will know the importance of a game changer.

[greyblazer]

In any team I have been involved with there were differences but when you're batting, bowling or fielding you hardly will get a chance to think about it.

Leave alone great sides but even the OZ side of 90's had differences. Once Dean Jones publicly said that Waugh twins were getting selected ahead of him because they could bowl a bit and he felt selectors were biased. Well Jones came-back into the set up for one-day matches, made runs and OZ won matches. Waugh twins may not have liked him off the field but it doesn't matter.

McDermott always felt that Border preferred Hughes and gave McD. a cold shoulder. In-fact during 93 Ashes when McD. was injured Border had some harsh words to tell about him. McDermott came-back from injury and played under AB.There were problems between Zoehrer and Healy too. Finally as Healy was the better keeper he won that battle.

Problems will exist but you don't drop your best players because you feel he creates problems in the dressing room.Even if you want to sort it out do it behind closed doors. Now it has reached a stage where we just see gossips spreading around. The more they delay about having a meeting worse the situation will be.

[shankycricket]

So he didnt help you get there, he didnt help you while you were there. Where exactly did he get his 50 avg from then?

You do realise he was playing before 2009, right?

No-one is denying KP is a good player, but it is debatable at best whether he is worth the extra man management skills to keep him in order.

In real terms, without KP's runs in the last 5 tests, we would have lost to Sri Lanka 2-0 and been whitewashed by South Africa.

Instead we drew 1-1, and could have, given more time, went into the South Africa final test with more confidence and at 1-1...

And if he'd played in the last test he might have hooked straight down Tahirs throat at deep backward square leg first ball in both innings. You see, anyone can manufacture reality. You don't have any proof someone else wouldn't have made those runs.

And reality is, he saved the series in Sri Lanka with an aggressive and masterful innings, and his innings at Headlingley turned a stuttering England performance into a possible victory

How dare you talk about reality?

[meninblue]

Just out of interest, who here has played sport at a club level?

See I have played club cricket, I played junior rugby to a pretty high standard, and in my younger 20's I was a decent enough semi proffesional climber...

Now in none of those pursuits, albeit none at the top level(although one inside which there was a high risk of death or serious injury) would I have ever substitued a friend for performance. And I dont think, even at a low level, other people I played with would disagree.

When push comes to shove, especially with climbing, you have to know that the other guy behind or in front of you has the skills to perform... Id take my worst enemy up a mountain if I knew he had the toughness and skills to cope under pressure, and I wanted to win in sport, I found playing with friends was more annoying because being up to the standard and playing well is all that mattered. I have fallen out with friends and stopped playing 7 a side football recently because I found that playing with people and losing all the time was no fun.... its annoying to work your ass off and see others not care, or not put the effort in to perform.

Maybe its the fine margins of my past climbs that make me this way, because as I said, you could be killed and getting out safely was even more important than success of a climb.... but in most of the team environments I have been in, there was never a question of performance being compromised by anything else. If anything, I found that guys who were the best made great team players simply because they took the pressure off the others.

Maybe its just me, but I cant see how such a good performer can be jettisoned as a non team player.... everything else is just by the way side. A team lives and dies by its performance, and in those terms, KP is the best.

I suggest some people review what they think makes a good team. Surely all that matters is contributions and final results?

Well our coach served two tenures of 4 years each at MCA committee member, twice under the leadership of now ICC president Sharad Pawar. He has also been coaching since 15 years . He would never tolerate any indiscipline from any club cricketer, even those who are playing for the club for 15 years. In a recent kanga League match this month he told everyone to be at the ground at 9 Am. Those who would not reach one hour before the match will not be selected irrespective of the stature of the club cricketer in the team. He never tolerates any sort of disciplinary issues although he gets involved with some lighter moments with us. Having said that we made lot of fun of him on annual 15 day cricket tours to cities outside Mumbai, most notable being the Gwalior cricket tour. Most of it in his absence and sometime playing pranks on him in his presence. Knowing our coach well enough, he would give importance to a club cricketers attitude towards team. Like sachin and rahul have shown that highest test quality can be achieved by being a team player, there are many club cricketers who can perform well by abiding to expectations from a team player. One does not has to break expectations to perform at his best.