Racism in English football?

[Alviro Patterson]

I can see the difference, I take offence with Ferdinand trying to take the morale high ground and acting like an innocent victim, when he started the name calling.

JT taking it too far is irrelevant.

Absolutely, all give and no take springs to mind. Had Anton kept his trap shut then none of this would have happened.

Maybe John Terry got a lesser ban compared to Luis Suarez is because he got provoked.

[SaintPowelly]

I can see the difference, I take offence with Ferdinand trying to take the morale high ground and acting like an innocent victim, when he started the name calling.

JT taking it too far is irrelevant.

Absolutely, all give and no take springs to mind. Had Anton kept his trap shut then none of this would have happened.

Maybe John Terry got a lesser ban compared to Luis Suarez is because he got provoked.

Suarez also used the term 8 times, whereas Terry used it once.

[sussexpob]

Mike,

Suggesting that white people be taken out of a fair job application process and exchanged for a potentially less worthy black person, solely based on their colour, is as pro racist a suggestion against white people as any of the racist issues that have been brought up in context to this debate. That is simply not equality, in any of its pure definitions.

All I get from Thuram's words is that he is sadly a racist who's words anger and offend me, and who seeks to use his fame and influence to forward a racist policy into a game I love.

"The overweight have never been denied the vote, enslaved or segregated. The historical baggage that comes with the abuse is important. You need to be able to say to the perpetrators – 'you can't do this,' but you also need to say why."

Why is there an intellectual doubt over a black man being a manager? If it takes people beyond this subconscious conditioning to not see black people in charge of a team then it can only be positive."

Can Thuram, or you Mike, give any example of the subconscious conditioning against black managers capacity to run a football team?

Can you, or Thuram, explain to me why in the context of 2012 football we are mentioning Slavery(abolished in 1807 in UK), racial segregation(never took place in this country, and apartheid lead to sanctions against South Africa from UK) and denial of vote( the white working class majority were not given suffrage until it became universal for all, irrespective of colour, in 1918).... ????

Just as a side note, binge eating is a real problem, and is actually linked to lack of confidence and self awareness issues which could be easily triggeedr by someone insulting you... it leads to serious depression, suicides and a whole host of psychological problems that are as in turn caused and maintained by confidence issues.... I guess though its not as important as racism, after all slavery existed in this country 200 years ago!

[Making_Splinters]

Mike,

Suggesting that white people be taken out of a fair job application process and exchanged for a potentially less worthy black person, solely based on their colour, is as pro racist a suggestion against white people as any of the racist issues that have been brought up in context to this debate. That is simply not equality, in any of its pure definitions.

Couldn't agree more.

[SaintPowelly]

This whole racism debacle seems to have gone 180 degrees, feels like white people are being singled out.

[Gingerfinch]

I can see the difference, I take offence with Ferdinand trying to take the morale high ground and acting like an innocent victim, when he started the name calling.

JT taking it too far is irrelevant.

Absolutely, all give and no take springs to mind. Had Anton kept his trap shut then none of this would have happened.

Maybe John Terry got a lesser ban compared to Luis Suarez is because he got provoked.

Suarez also used the term 8 times, whereas Terry used it once.

The best thing Ferdinand could have done, was to apologise for his remarks. He would have come out of it better, Terry would have still got a little ban and all this fuss would have been over ages ago.

[Making_Splinters]

I see they've launched a Police investigation in to Clattenburg despite neither Chelsea or the FA supposedly lodging a complaint.

Is this tackling racism or just turning it into Salem?

[Alviro Patterson]

I see they've launched a Police investigation in to Clattenburg despite neither Chelsea or the FA supposedly lodging a complaint.

Is this tackling racism or just turning it into Salem?

If I was Clattenburg i'd sue Herbert for defamination and emotional distress, how is it even possible for someone to make a complaint who clearly was not involved?

[Chris de Burgh]

Herbert seems to be another lawyer jumping on another bandwagon, I wonder where we've all heard of that before.

[sussexpob]

This Clattenberg thing seems to be getting strange. The inference, having read the reports this morning, is that Clattenberg has produced a strong rebuttal of the claims and that in the counter it is being indicated that Chelsea's conduct when approaching the referee after the game could also be questionable. This has led Chelsea to take a precautionary step back, and they are now trying to distance themselves a little from counter attack if this goes wrong, because they are now quite clearly building up the fact that this is a "independant legal counsel" who will investigate after a complaint from the black lawyers association.

The Telegraph last night reported that the word "monkey" was used by Clattenberg towards Jon Obi Mikel, and that no one really seems to know what anti Spanish thing has been said on the pitch because Torres and Mata have confirmed they didnt hear it, and thats words from Romeu ,the other Spaniard in the Chelsea squad who couldnt really comment on what has been alleged to be said, and by whom. Apparently Ramires and Luiz are the other two people involved, so I guess something about Brazilian's also maybe?

According to reports it would also seem that Clattenberg's team from Sunday are in full support of him as well...... I guess we will know when Chelsea announce later today the findings of their internal enquiry

[Aidan11]

I worry that incidents like this could become common. Time to mic up officials so that conversations can be recorded. Don't make them audible though like with rugby refs otherwise games would have to be played after the watershed.

[Making_Splinters]

I worry that incidents like this could become common. Time to mic up officials so that conversations can be recorded. Don't make them audible though like with rugby refs otherwise games would have to be played after the watershed.

Why stop at Officials Adian?

I'd agree Aidan, a player gets send off and we'll hear how the Ref's neighbour's goat died in strange circumstances and how the havest has failed since he moved into town.

[yorker_129-7]

The thing I don't get about this racism thing is that if Clattenburg has said these things, why did he only say them to the Chelsea players, and why has no-one come out and claimed he said it to them before?

* No-one wakes up one morning and says "d'ya know what, I think I fancy being a racist today".
* No Manchester United players have come forward alleging he said anything.
* No players from West Brom or Man City (the game he refereed the previous weekend) have claimed he said anything.
* No players from Southampton or Fulham from the weekend before that have alleged anything was said.

Either Clattenburg has kept it very well hidden (which given the nature of racism is extremely difficult) or...well, the alternative is pretty despicable.

BTW, this is a pretty interesting read - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012 ... llegations

[rich1uk]

chelsea have now made a formal protest to the FA it seems

not sure where this is going as supposedly the other officials who had access to his mic have backed his statement that he didn't say what hes being accused of

[Chris de Burgh]

If these allegations are proved false (and lets be honest it's standing on pretty thin ice at this stage already) the rebuttals for Chelsea could be worse then the allegations. If memory serves me well I remember reading of false claims of racism in one of the lower tiers of English football recently.