The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[SaintPowelly]

Isn't it self evident that you don't leave out your best T20 player, your one batter that is comparable to the best in the format? Would you leave out Dale Steyn on the supposition that you can't guarantee that he would have a great competition? It just doesn't make sense.

Flower, Cook, Prior don't want KP back, and Flower has gone. It's far from clear that anyone else feels the same. In fact, the majority of players (Trott, Tremlett, Swann, Anderson, Tredwell, Broad) have supported him when really it wasn't in their interests to do that. Even Giles hasn't indicated he didn't want KP.

When did Broad support him ? and Swann didn't...the only person I have heard defend him is Tremlett and that is probably largely based on him having to share a dressing room at Surrey.

[sussexpob]

Isn't it self evident that you don't leave out your best T20 player, your one batter that is comparable to the best in the format? Would you leave out Dale Steyn on the supposition that you can't guarantee that he would have a great competition? It just doesn't make sense.

Flower, Cook, Prior don't want KP back, and Flower has gone. It's far from clear that anyone else feels the same. In fact, the majority of players (Trott, Tremlett, Swann, Anderson, Tredwell, Broad) have supported him when really it wasn't in their interests to do that. Even Giles hasn't indicated he didn't want KP.

When did Broad support him ? and Swann didn't...the only person I have heard defend him is Tremlett and that is probably largely based on him having to share a dressing room at Surrey.

Swann said that the media and certain players were trying to create a rift between the team management and KP, and that England shouldn't drop him. He then said a few weeks ago KP had been childish with the Twitter/Prior row, but that is understandable.

Broad never supported him. He has been brainwashed with the party line, and ignored all direct questions about KP, and refused to acknowledge his name.... a man with such belief in the decision, he didn't even try to answer the questions with an inadequate answer.

Giles actually said in January when questioned that it was frustrating when you cant pick your best players, but even if he and Flower argue behind closed doors, once a decision is made (by Flower) Giles must step up in public and play a united front..... which reading between the lines to anyone was saying " I want KP but I am not allowed him"

I think Ravi Bopara said he wanted KP in the team and wished his family well in the future.

Eoin Morgan said quite outright that he wanted KP to come back and that he had a lot to offer still

Jimmy Anderson had said the summer before the Ashes that the dressing room was "probably happier" with KP in it because in general it was no different with him there, but with players like him England win more, and therefore the net effect is positive.

[sussexpob]

Going on....

even when all this rubbish post Adelaide was meant to be happening, Ian Bell came out in the final test and said that KP "is outstanding," . "He does play an aggressive game and sometimes when you get caught at long-on it doesn't look particularly great.....But the number of games he's won in the past... there're not that many players like that in world cricket"... as I said this was after the fireworks began, but the public had no knowledge of it.....Sound like an advert to some people in the team management at a time the rifts were breaking out???

And if Broad and Bairstow had problems with KP, then why were they the ones going out after the Adelaide test on their own for a night out together?? Do you choose to socialise with the only player you don't get on with?

Joe Root was said to have shadowed Pietersen very closely in the tour and said "He is clearly a great talent and I’m sure he will be for many more years".. he also says he didn't see anything untowards.

Only thing Trott has said "The amount of times I came in and then Kev came in and we batted together where he took the pressure right off and started middling it from ball one - there were numerous occasions, plenty".

[sussexpob]

In fact the only people who have really came out against KP are:

Flower - Sacked

Cook -Who is lucky not to be sacked

Prior - Dropped

Bresnan - Was being held back by KP so much, he got rid of him, and served up over 10 an over ever since....

[SaintPowelly]

Only thing I ever heard, was Swann calling KP ( and Flower ) childish, certainly didn't sound supportive.

I also know for a 100% fact, that KP wasn't like at Hants ( and this was long before he announced he was leaving too )

[Arthur Crabtree]

Maybe all those players didn't like KP that much (I forgot to mention the younger players who said he was one of the most welcoming of them in the team, like Bairstow, Root and Stokes) but the picture isn't that he wasn't welcome in the dressing room. Tremlett said the dressing room was quite compliant, and KP was one of the few that stood up to the coaches. He didn't use Gooch as a coach. It sounds like he argued with Cook, but you know, Cook needs a senior player, and not one to send to field on the rope. Any regime really needs some opposition to thrive, otherwise nothing gets questioned.

England have been struggling for two years. The decision they made in review of that was to get rid of Pietersen. Nothing else. Not the coaches or the captain. But the number four bat who seems to have been allowed no say in the decision making group.

[Alviro Patterson]

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?

Would England have likely scored more runs with KP.... yes

With more runs would England have beaten South Africa.... yes

With a slightly higher net rate would England have beaten NZ....yes

Regardless of poor fielding, England needed a tiny extra bit of batting to win each game... and without KP, we lost them, with him his expected performance as a T20 legend would have seen us through had everything else been the same.

How can anyone know that the team would have scored more runs with KP? He might usefully have replaced Lumb or Ali but the last time Pietersen batted in a T20 game for England was February 2012. And as brillant a player as KP was he didn't succeed every time.

Alfie is right, England's totals were some of the highest in the competition, and an improvement on previous efforts with the bat. If England had bowled and fielded better against SA the total should have been enough.

Games are as much won, if not more so with the ball and in the field, as the old saying goes "Catches win Matches"

KP wouldn't have improved the bowling and fielding so whether he should be in the England team is irrelevant.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Add Michael Carberry (in the Guardian)

Was he shocked when he heard that Pietersen, England's best player, had effectively been banned from ever playing international cricket again? "I'd have to say so. Yeah. It was a big surprise because I don't think anyone saw that coming. Through the tour, certainly, Kev was very helpful to me. Over the years Kev, as one of the greats of the game, has always been very helpful in talking about the mental side. In England's position you want to retain that knowledge as much as you can. You hope he will still be around the county game for the benefit of the next generation."

Critical of the England set up and Ashley Giles. In the current corporate climate, I wonder if he'll pay for not being on message.

[mikesiva]

3) KP misses the start of the CPL, stays in England, and joins the CPL after July 25, and plays until August 10.

Just heard on Sky Sports that this is the scenario....

[GarlicJam]

Wasn't this thread the cause of all of the problems yesterday?

[sussexpob]

Wasn't this thread the cause of all of the problems yesterday?

Yeah> It was closed by the CIA

[GarlicJam]

not the ECB?

Piers Morgan?

[D/L]

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?

Would England have likely scored more runs with KP.... yes

With more runs would England have beaten South Africa.... yes

With a slightly higher net rate would England have beaten NZ....yes

Regardless of poor fielding, England needed a tiny extra bit of batting to win each game... and without KP, we lost them, with him his expected performance as a T20 legend would have seen us through had everything else been the same.

In the games that England showed some fight, would it have been likely they would have with Pietersen in the team... no

Overall, would they, therefore, have acquitted themselves better with Pietersen in the team... no

Is it likely that Pietersen's absence made any difference to the outcome... no

[D/L]

Also, how many people in this dressing room and even the coach have worked with KP?

Has KP even played under Giles? Only Broad and Tredwell have played with him recently, and I think both came out in support of him.. oh and Bresnan, but then again I don't think his performance really merits anyone listening to what makes him feel happier.

Perhaps Pietersen may have demonstrated an ability to quickly alienate anyone in the dressing room, regardless of how often they had played in the same team.

The comments of all Pietersen's past team mates have been very guarded to say the least. Perhaps the gagging order in force until September had something to do with that.

Bresnan's figures, of course, would make better reading without his being the major victim of dropped catches. Performance is a different thing and so often confused with figures.

[D/L]

...In fact, the majority of players (Trott, Tremlett, Swann, Anderson, Tredwell, Broad) have supported him when really it wasn't in their interests to do that. Even Giles hasn't indicated he didn't want KP.

Very guardedly, if at all, and certainly not with any conviction. Also, contractually, they are currently limited as to what they can say.

Such comments from Pietersen's supporters really seem the equivalent of a drowning man clutching at straw.