I'm not sure that even a flourishing irish test scene would stop Irish players from switching to England. After all everyone seems to forget that unlik most other neighboring cricketing countries it is REALLY easy for any Irishman to become British and qualify for the English team. The reason? The common travel area. This semi-official arrangement means that Irish citizens once they land in the UK are essentially permanent residents (given indefinite leave to remain) and thus well on their way to qualifying for British citizenship in a matter of years if they want. This is separate and apart from the EU rules on freedom of movement (which has a similar but slightly weaker effect on the Netherlands and Denmark with regards to England).
rich1uk wrote:AC's point had nothing to do with what facilities they might or might not have
because of security considerations who is going to tour there ?
sussexpob wrote:I'm not sure that even a flourishing irish test scene would stop Irish players from switching to England. After all everyone seems to forget that unlik most other neighboring cricketing countries it is REALLY easy for any Irishman to become British and qualify for the English team. The reason? The common travel area. This semi-official arrangement means that Irish citizens once they land in the UK are essentially permanent residents (given indefinite leave to remain) and thus well on their way to qualifying for British citizenship in a matter of years if they want. This is separate and apart from the EU rules on freedom of movement (which has a similar but slightly weaker effect on the Netherlands and Denmark with regards to England).
The Irish Cricket Team is not just the "Republic" but is a combination of Southern and Northern Ireland, so Porterfield/Rankin/Stirling and several other players are British by birth, not what you would commonly class as "Irish".
I think that is a pretty important point myself, simply because protestant northern Irish players might not exactly want to play for an organisation that even in a some way politically represents a United Ireland, especially if you come from a Unionist background.
rich1uk wrote:I didn't make the original point but I can only assume that in a discussion about which country is in the best position to host international matches you look at what each country needs to do to make that happen
Ireland needs better facilities , something they are working on and will have in the relatively near future
Afghanistan needs to resolve the security issues , something unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future and something that is way outside the remit of the cricket authorities
I'm not sure about that since to the best of my knowledge, almost every international sport features a single All-Ireland team except for football. The rugby codes and hockey certainly have all-Ireland teams from what I remember. And I've never got the impression that the Irish cricket team was dominated by Catholic Irishmen and Catholic Northern Irishmen. In fact, I always got the impression that cricket in Ireland was strongest in Northern Ireland and Leinster, so I would not be surprised if the Irish team was actually a mix of Catholics and Protestants.
I'm not sure about that since to the best of my knowledge, almost every international sport features a single All-Ireland team except for football.......Maybe before the Good Friday Agreement had marked the weakening of the overt politico-religious conflict in Ireland I could see where this might be a factor, but not so much today....
rich1uk wrote:and I made it perfectly clear it was outside the remit of the cricket authorities , still doesn't mean they are going to be hosting international cricket any time soon regardless of how good their facilities are which is the point being made ...
i'm out of this discussion
Arthur Crabtree wrote:They featured a prospective venue on the docu film about Afghan cricket. But it wasn't much more than a dream about a real grass wicket. Which is still something. But yes, being unable to host home games has to be something of a barrier to their progression.
sussexpob wrote:I'm not sure about that since to the best of my knowledge, almost every international sport features a single All-Ireland team except for football. The rugby codes and hockey certainly have all-Ireland teams from what I remember. And I've never got the impression that the Irish cricket team was dominated by Catholic Irishmen and Catholic Northern Irishmen. In fact, I always got the impression that cricket in Ireland was strongest in Northern Ireland and Leinster, so I would not be surprised if the Irish team was actually a mix of Catholics and Protestants.
Unionists are protestant, so I was making the opposite point. Cricket was actually a very popular sport in a United Ireland until the First World War, but after that regional sections of the IRA outside Dublin started to look down on it as a symbol of Unionists, and the game died out in all but Dublin (which is Leinster). Martin McGuiness, the former IRA head, actually apparently loved cricket (although he is from Derry, NI) and actually was said to cheer England on in the 70's..... but generally, cricket clubs were targets for Republican violence in Northern Ireland (Cliftonville Stadium was vandalised several times, before being burnt down in the early 1970's), and cricket even now in Northern Ireland has no significant following, and is seen as strictly protestant. And Northern Ireland has traditionally produced the lion share of the team, so yes, you could say that it has been more protestant.
sussexpob wrote:I'm not sure about that since to the best of my knowledge, almost every international sport features a single All-Ireland team except for football.......Maybe before the Good Friday Agreement had marked the weakening of the overt politico-religious conflict in Ireland I could see where this might be a factor, but not so much today....
Nope, thats not true at all. Only Two days ago a move was made by several Unionist boxing clubs in Belfast to petition a change in the law that allows separate competition for Northern Ireland away from a United Ireland, as (and this is acknowledged by both sides) Unionist fighters from Protestant suburbs of Belfast who want to fight under the banner of a British Flag and sing their own official national anthem, have instead to listen to Londonderry Air and fight in the colours of Ireland. This also creates huge problems under the radar at local level when, as Northern Irish Protestant also end up having to fight in Ireland or forced to fight in Catholic dominated areas, they are increasingly becoming subjected to racial, religious and physical abuse, threats, etc.
In fact, the captain of the N. Irish boxing team stated after winning gold in the Commonwealth games (where Ireland are split) he did not acknowledge the medal ceremony as it "wasn't his flag, and wasn't his anthem" (or words to that effect). He wasn't the only one, and on both sides of the catholic/protestant divide. Boxing is a very good example as Northern Ireland has a vibrant and increasingly popular/successful working class following that is producing talent all over the place, and is not like rugby, an old established sport where a United Ireland team was created before the Irish Free State was created, and where it is limited to a small percentage of upper or middle class people, who are generally accepted to have been far less entrenched by sectarianism. It is clear in Boxing that the issues are becoming more prevalent, and that many boxers want the right to box under the colours, flag and nationality that they are. Interestingly, it is the Catholic Sinn Fein Sports minister who is resistive to a change and refused to grant ..... maybe because she prefers due to her political affiliation, to have British Protestants fight in Gold, white and Green and forced to acknowledge they are Irish!!!
In Football, another very popular working class sport, a United Ireland team would never have been accepted or was possible.
Rugby has its problems too, and there have been accusations for years that Ulster protestant players are overlooked on performance. The anthem and flag issue is also a problem here, and the cultural bias is not hard to identify.... The Irish team play in Dublin exclusively, which fly's a Tricolour along side a mongrel flag, which plays the Irish national anthem alongside a shared one..... but when in 2011, a game scheduled in Belfast for a WC warm up was supposed to be held, the Irish Board refused to ever consider using Northern Ireland as a venue again for the future when it was pointed out a Union Flag and God Save the Queen would be sung instead of the Irish NA, as the established precedent was to use the home venue alongside the United Ireland flag/anthem.
In fact, ever seen how many Irish players (Republicans) sing the Ireland's call???? It was noted in the WC it was first used, 27 of the 30 man squad refused to sing it. Even now, hardly any non-Republic born Irishman acknowledges it, as do the Northern Ireland players with the Republic anthem.
And if it still doesn't matter, check out how desperately political correct Rory McIlroy is when taking about which nation he will represent at the Olympics next year.
sussexpob wrote:For cricket, this will always mean that Northern Irish people who consider themselves loyalists, will always have to gravitate towards England over Ireland, sucking away a large part of the talent pool. Boyd Rankin (from Derry) for instance went to a former Protestant school and as soon as he earned a county contract he said he didn't want to represent Ireland, and would stop playing for them in order to pursue his chances with England.
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