International Football thread

[sussexpob]

It's funny how things have conspired against us in World Cups -

1970 - Gordon Banks goes down with food poisoning before the Q/F v Germany
1986 - Maradona's handball
1998 - Sol Campbell has a perfectly good goal disallowed against Argentina (we subsequently lose on pens)
2010 - Obvious goal not given.


And we hardly register a single vote when bidding for WCs.

I get the feeling we're not liked at FIFA

1970 - The winners beat us convincingly, and doubtful that a keeper could make a difference against a strong German team
1986 - He also scored one of the best goals in World Cup history, in a game England would have lost without a second goal.
1998 - Check again.... Alan Shearer rapes Carlos Roa for no reason, clear foul.
2010 - So England would have lost 4-2 then? Or possibly even more because Germany would have taken the foot off the gas a bit later? England were outplayed thoroughly, only some crazy would think that England would have not lost that game in the second half.

[sussexpob]

Things have gone against us at times, but probably the only time we were good enough to win a tournament since 1966 was in 1996 when we hosted the Euros. What we need is to be able to host another tournament.......no chance of that then.

England were rubbish in EURO 96. Its amazing how time can change a few memories.

The ref in the Spain v England game was as dodgy as the South Korea incidents in 2002.... Spain by memory had two goals disallowed, one for no reason, and had a string of nailed on penalties denied. Scotland out played us for large periods and were a penalty save away from going to 1-1 with ten to play. We were absolutely rubbish against a very poor Swiss side.

[sussexpob]

In fact, the only memory of us playing well was deep in injury time missing those Gazza chances against Germany in a game we had been second best in... and the Holland game will go down in legend.

Even the Holland game is a bit of a fraud though. That Holland side only had about 5 players who had played in the national team longer than a handful of games.... the manager was accused of favouritism towards white players, Edgar Davids was sent home for saying Hiddinck was racist and had his head up the ass of certain players....

Holland were in an utter crisis, they had dropped half their team for the tournament!

[Gingerfinch]

Things have gone against us at times, but probably the only time we were good enough to win a tournament since 1966 was in 1996 when we hosted the Euros. What we need is to be able to host another tournament.......no chance of that then.

England were rubbish in EURO 96. Its amazing how time can change a few memories.

The ref in the Spain v England game was as dodgy as the South Korea incidents in 2002.... Spain by memory had two goals disallowed, one for no reason, and had a string of nailed on penalties denied. Scotland out played us for large periods and were a penalty save away from going to 1-1 with ten to play. We were absolutely rubbish against a very poor Swiss side.

We did thrash Holland. You do have a point regarding the Spanish game, mind. That said we were a little unlucky against the Germans, and could have beaten the Czech's if we had got there.

[budgetmeansbudget]

Things have gone against us at times, but probably the only time we were good enough to win a tournament since 1966 was in 1996 when we hosted the Euros. What we need is to be able to host another tournament.......no chance of that then.

England were rubbish in EURO 96. Its amazing how time can change a few memories.

The ref in the Spain v England game was as dodgy as the South Korea incidents in 2002.... Spain by memory had two goals disallowed, one for no reason, and had a string of nailed on penalties denied. Scotland out played us for large periods and were a penalty save away from going to 1-1 with ten to play. We were absolutely rubbish against a very poor Swiss side.

It's amazing how you become rather prone to exaggeration when attempting to vehemently make a point. England were clearly not rubbish in Euro 1996, they were average against Switzerland and Scotland, outstanding against Holland, average against Spain, and the better team against Germany. I didn't say they were an outstanding team I just said they were good enough to win the tournament in 1996, because (a) they were at home and (b) there weren't any stand out teams in the tournament.

[budgetmeansbudget]

1982 World Cup in Spain was one that we could have performed better after winning all our group games comfortably. Unfortunately we had that crappy second round group system where all teams finished level on points I seem to remember but we went out because we didn't score. Didn't lose a game and still went home before the semi finals.

Correction: just looked it up West Germany beat Spain 2-1 in the second round. Looks like my memory is crap after all!

[sussexpob]

We did thrash Holland.

As stated, the Holland 1996 team had gone through the same as the French 2010 World Cup squad, accusations of favouritism and racism in the camp, players being sent home or benched.

England could of face a midfield 5 containing the generally accepted best defensive midfielder of his day and a player who was voted after Zidane as the having the best 1998 World Cup (Davids), the only player to have won Champions Leagues at three clubs (Seedorf), at the time the foreign player who played the most games for Barcelona (Cocu), a player who had won best young player at the Previous World Cup, who's transfer later was the 4th highest of all time, and who won multiple awards in English and Dutch football (Overmars)..... they also picked De Boer, an attacking winger, in the central holding position.

Take those players above, replace them with Jordi Cryuff who only played because the surname, Aaron Winter, Wim Jonk (who retired in his early 30's after failing to cut it at Sheffield Wednesday) and Richard Witchge (who had not even got a sniff of a game at Blackburn the year before) .....

You see how lucky England were that the Dutch couldn't field a first team, because that Dutch team full strength with Bergkamp at his peak and Kluivert not fat and still being able to run = Massacre.

[Gingerfinch]

Kluivert scored a sublime goal, assisted by Bergkamp. Fact is we thrashed a decent Holland side.

[sussexpob]

b) there weren't any stand out teams in the tournament.

Not sure about that. Holland and Spain were relatively weak, the first as stated above, the latter were going through an institutional crisis and a huge rebuild era (they entered 1998 as one of the favourites blooding lots of new talent like Raul, and should have beaten France).

The other established teams were alive with quality players. Germany were without Matthaus, but Sammer came into his own and if memory serves, sometime around that he won Dortmund the Champions League basically on his own.

Germany - Hassler, Moller, Sammer, Klinsmann, Helmer, Kohler, Khan, Freund, Scholl, Bierhoff.... = great team, defensively very strong, good midfield with strength and creativity and arguably one of the best strikers i European history.

France - Barthez, Blanc, Desailly, DEschamps, Zidane, Thuram, Lizarazu, Lebeouf, Dugarry, Djorkaeff = one striker away from being undefeatable (they got that striker in 1998, they became undefeatable for 4 years).

Italy - Did you ever get a better defence in history then Maldini at his peak, Nesta before the knee injury took away his pace, Costacurta before he got old and lost his pace, and Panucci? Ok, maybe Baresi at his peak or Cannavaro at his peak, id accept, but this would stand up for argument. Add to it Del Piero, Donadoni, Baggio, Albertini, Zola, Cheisa, Di Livio, Di Matteo, Ravanelli ..... In fact, why Italy didn't win that tournament is beyond me.

That team was so good, I think only Del Piero from that years Juventus team that won the European Cup Final was good enough to get in it!!!!! I mean, any team that can leave Conte at home for a tournament is very strong

[Gingerfinch]

Italy rested a few players in a group game, lost/draw then went out, in the group of death. Piss-poor management.

[Gingerfinch]

On paper the French team looked awesome, but Zidane was not even in the same league as he was two years later.

[sussexpob]

On paper the French team looked awesome, but Zidane was not even in the same league as he was two years later.

Debatable, simply because no one had heard of him at that point because he had been playing for a low French team. At the time he was considered to be immense, and was noted for being absolutely beastly in France (and for France) before Juventus signed him.. he had already won player of the year in France, and replaced one of the best French Midfielders of all time on arrival into Juventus.... a decision that was controversial, but was pretty much instantly silenced when they seen him play.

He won French player of the year in 1996
In 97 he won Serie A player of the year (at the time the best league in the world) and was third in World Player of the year....

He was immense, in fact some people argue that the 2006 World Cup aside, his 1996-1998 period was when he was at his peak.

[Gingerfinch]

He had a poor euros, sussex. I remember him being talked up beforehand, but he disappointed. Two years was a massive difference for that French team.

[sussexpob]

He had a poor euros, sussex. I remember him being talked up beforehand, but he disappointed. Two years was a massive difference for that French team.

I think I misread the point (that you were saying that he wasn't anywhere near as good as a player, I think you now meant it that he didn't have as good a 96 tournie as 98).... which I agree with on reflection. I cant honestly remember him in Euro 96, which is obvious evidence of that... no one forgets him in 1998.

My first memory of him was about 1996 not long after he played for Juventus... he destroyed some poor Serie A team as a one man band with a display of passing few could display.... incredible player.

I rank him 3rd or 4th best I have seen

[Gingerfinch]

He had a poor euros, sussex. I remember him being talked up beforehand, but he disappointed. Two years was a massive difference for that French team.

I think I misread the point (that you were saying that he wasn't anywhere near as good as a player, I think you now meant it that he didn't have as good a 96 tournie as 98).... which I agree with on reflection. I cant honestly remember him in Euro 96, which is obvious evidence of that... no one forgets him in 1998.

My first memory of him was about 1996 not long after he played for Juventus... he destroyed some poor Serie A team as a one man band with a display of passing few could display.... incredible player.

I rank him 3rd or 4th best I have seen

I do remember him playing against Utd in 96. He was classy back then, and never gave the ball away.

In my top five attacking players, top three probably.