2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

[alfie]

I will say it again the pitch wasn't flat on day 1, had enough help for the pace men and spinner, not india fault england are so crap with the ball and they scored way too many runs on day 1 and in the first innings.
How that makes this a bad pitch or win the toss and win the game since the pitch changed drastically from day 1 is baffling and so many sore losers around at the moment.

Oh for heavens sake ...where are the sore losers ? No one is saying India is winning this match just because of the toss. But if you are continuing to deny it gave them a serious advantage then you know very little about this game despite your incessant rambling on about it.

I can't be bothered arguing this any more. Goodnight...

[Dr Cricket]

Already said the toss got an advantage but not enough to make a win such a sure thing and I suspect actually bowling or batting well is worth more than what the toss advantage is worth.
I think it clearly you that doesn't know about cricket if you honestly think the toss was massive here.

[Dr Cricket]

Lets say the toss was worth 50 runs even then that amount could easily be made up by being a better bowling or batting side or even not bowling or batting well.
on the first day england probably gave 120 runs away and good batting from Kohli and Pujara got india a big total, england first innings again poor batting from Duckett and Root causing 2 massive mistakes caused them to score less runs than they could have scored which again killed the game.
Also Cook getting a beauty again caused england scoring less runs which are all more important to the game than India winning the toss.
So baffling how people can't see that.
But of course england losing the toss is massive reason why england loss the game and it was impossible to win from that on this sht heap of a pitch.

[Gingerfinch]

England will probably lose this game because India will have played better. Batting first may have given us more of a chance, well at least to making the game closer at least, but we'll never know. Batting first, like in the first test can at least give you a chance to put runs on the board and put some pressure on.

[Dr Cricket]

I give you that ginger it makes the game closer and put some pressure by putting runs on the board, or they may not actually put a big total on the board either especially if the pitch gives Ashwin and Jadeja some help.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-aus ... 98812.html
first test 308 out
2nd test 237/9 declared
3rd test 408
4th test 262
Australia not even close to winning one game.

india 327 Mumbai not even close to winning
india 317 kolkata not even close to winning.
remember this both times England fans and media where crapping themselves 300 was so much on that deck with the ball turning so much and it would only get worse, turns out england could get a lead and batting was quite easy for them but india couldn't face Swann and paneasr.

So maybe Toss doesn't actually make the game closer either.
This Vizag deck is closer to those 6 test than it is for the Rajkot game which was basically a road with not much hope for a result.

Anyway we shall see when india loses the toss, But I bloody know india will win the toss so we would probably never actually find out which is so bloody annoying.

[Dr Cricket]

Actually think their more evidence of opposition sides winning in india losing the toss then actually winning games when batting first and piling a big score.
England last 6 wins in india have came from losing the toss and apart from Mumbai 2006 they probably batted 2nd as well with Dravid famously sending england in since he thought the pace men will get something out of the morning session.

Can't remember many times india losing a test while batting second while the opposition scored bucket load of runs in the first innings it just doesn't happen.

[Dr Cricket]

Even When australia won in 2001, india batted first and got 176.
in the 1999 series loss to SA in india, India again lost twice winning the toss and not posting a good total.
in 2007 Steyn destroyed india in the first innings in Ahmedabad again india won the toss.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvrsa2010 ... 41825.html
only score card which shows an opposition killing india on the first innings and batting first.
next games SA win the toss and bats first in a Turning pitch and they barely get 300 and india thrashes them in kolkata to be world number 1 test side.
in the india vs pakistan series in 1999 both sides didn't score big while batting first.
but the game did go with the toss but india did choke in Chennai.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistani ... E2%80%9305
pakistan did win a game in banglore scoring a massive total.
even in the 2004 famous series Australia only posted a massive total once
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64099.html

So only really 3 instances in the last 17 years of an opposition batting first and scoring massive runs to win a test match in india, says everything really. most of the time if the opposition win the toss and bat first and score 500-600 turns out the pitch is a dud and the game ends in a draw lol.

Yeah the toss is so massive right in india, or the opposition will out bat india on a turning deck in india while winning the toss, chances are england will get about 300, india around 450, england collapse in 3rd innings with india just chasing the total.
literally no evidence or any realistic chance of England ever winning a test here if they won the toss.
if they were really any good they would still win the game while losing the toss cough 2012 cough.

[sussexpob]

Are we still talking about the toss?

[Dr Cricket]

Are we still talking about the toss?

sadly we are on a pitch that lasted 5 days.
apparently only day 1 was a good deck for batting and the pitch changed overnight.
so the toss was so massive in this game and pretty much decided the result.
And the result was nothing to do with england being poor with the bat or ball.

[Dr Cricket]

Actually sickening that in this day and age people still hate this pitch, cricket is a pathetic sport at times and makes my blood boil.
How I love the sport is baffling at times.

[Dr Cricket]

Look how embarrassing the comments or the article on this blog are.
http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cric ... -thread-2/
only now they starting to believe maybe the toss wasn't the reason england are losing lol.

[rich1uk]

Lets say the toss was worth 50 runs even then that amount could easily be made up by being a better bowling or batting side or even not bowling or batting well.
on the first day england probably gave 120 runs away and good batting from Kohli and Pujara got india a big total, england first innings again poor batting from Duckett and Root causing 2 massive mistakes caused them to score less runs than they could have scored which again killed the game.
Also Cook getting a beauty again caused england scoring less runs which are all more important to the game than India winning the toss.
So baffling how people can't see that.
But of course england losing the toss is massive reason why england loss the game and it was impossible to win from that on this sht heap of a pitch.

the only person in this whole thread to use the phrase "massive advantage" with regard to the toss has been you trying to put words in other people's mouths

everyone else has just said that batting first was the preferred option and an advantage, which by definition is the reason Kohli chose to bat first after winning the toss as he considered it was the best option

did england bowl poorly on day one and exaggerate the benefit india had, yes we did

did england throw away some wickets at the start of our first innings and put ourselves in a terrible position, yes we did

are india a better team than us in these conditions, yes they are

but please stop with all this ridiculous posturing that batting first wasn't an advantage

[Red Devil]

The pitches are really winding me up as well tbh - why can't we produce pitches like the ones that BD produced - those pitches were great. ball turning from the start but not really changing dramatically thereafter takes the toss out of it.

BCCI should sort this out, and India would be much better for it. Producing a pitch that isn't really turning that much even on day 4 is just stupid - plays into England's hands.

[Dr Cricket]

Then maybe I must be hearing thing since Nasser, Athers, Key, Knight all said on day 1 and 2, Toss was massive and england could do nothing more since they were so behind the game straight after losing the toss.
And then you have the journalist again acting like the toss was the sole reason England are losing the games in the first few days and don't get me started on what the vast majority of the fans were saying.
I highly doubt England would be winning this game if they won the toss.

[rich1uk]

Then maybe I must be hearing thing since Nasser, Athers, Key, Knight all said on day 1 and 2, Toss was massive and england could do nothing more since they were so behind the game straight after losing the toss.
And then you have the journalist again acting like the toss was the sole reason England are losing the games in the first few days and don't get me started on what the vast majority of the fans were saying.
I highly doubt England would be winning this game if they won the toss.

i dont really give a toss, no pun intended, what the "vast majority" of fans are supposed to be saying, even if you could actually prove that to be true

we are having a debate on this forum and you are replying to people on this forum accusing them of saying things that hasn't been said on this forum

and your continued assertions that the toss had nothing to do with the current state of the game is just as ridiculous as anyone saying the toss had a "massive advantage" assuming anyone has actually been saying that