The Ashes: Australia in England 16th Jun - 31 July

[Durhamfootman]

Dobell talking about the rain affected draw that handed the ashes back to the Aussies

"But it was a five-Test series. And Australia did win the first two and bat with great assurance on the fourth afternoon here. Better, surely, for England to reflect on what they might have done differently at Edgbaston and Lord's than quibble about the rain in Manchester.

And what could they have done differently? Well, perhaps they could have worked on their fielding rather than their golf in the days before the first Test. And perhaps they could have ensured their bowlers were in the rhythm to avoid no balls - their ODI side once went more than 11,000 deliveries without over-stepping; it can be done - and that their keeper was fully fit for the challenge ahead.

They could have batted with a bit more intelligence at Lord's and declared a bit later at Edgbaston, too. And they could have got through their overs more quickly throughout. Who knows if the 20 or so overs they didn't bowl in this match could have been decisive.

Let's not pretend this is a one off, either. England have not won an Ashes series since 2015 and, since the end of that series, they have won just three of the 19 Tests these teams have contested. All those problems which persisted in English cricket before the start of the McCullum-Stokes era remain. Who is going to bowl spin in India, for example. And who is going to help Mark Wood with the fast bowling duties? England would be deluding themselves if they concluded it was only the weather which had defeated them. Just as Australia would be deluding themselves if they denied it was a factor."

[bigfluffylemon]

It's as if Dobell is reading these boards...

[alfie]

Yeah all that is fair.

Although it isn't the result I - as an England supporter - wanted , I have no problem with Australia retaining the Ashes even if it ends up 2-2 . They have earned that right by winning the first two games - and then by not folding up on day three here so that they were still standing when the rains came. But for Marnus and Mitch , they might still have lost , even on the Saturday.

The regret I have is that this has generally been a really enthralling series , with the first three matches all capable of going either way nearly to the last minute. Which meant the prospect of a last "winner takes all" match at The Oval was extremely attractive - and but for some more than usually extreme time loss from the weather would surely have been on. But perfect scenarios aren't guaranteed in sport.

The last match will still be far from meaningless anyway. Australia will doubtless be anxious to win it and cement their success rather than go home with a virtual asterisk on the trophy ; and England to maintain that long unbeaten home record - and demonstrate that their clear superiority in this most recent match wasn't just a one-off. What will be interesting is how the two sides respond to the events at Old Trafford : frustration for England , relief for Australia. Will the Aussies continue with their generally cautious tactics (which have actually drawn a lot of criticism here , despite the favourable result) or revert to a more positive approach ? And will England be able to keep playing with freedom and confidence or has that anti-climax knocked the stuffing out of them ?

In fact it will probably come down more to which side can produce more fit fast bowlers and hold their chances - and whether the weather (I have heard some rather gloomy predictions !) allows a decent number of hours of play. Hopefully we get another really good game of cricket. But in any case we should be grateful we have already had 3 - and a half - of those...

[bigfluffylemon]

Perhaps I have been living in Australia too long, and I still support England in the Ashes, but this series, I really have come to understand and agree with the Australian characterisation of English as modded whingeing poms. Geez. Three days after the event and the amount of ongoing hand-wringing about the weather, and how test matches should deal with rain. You'd think it had never rained in a test match, or in Manchester before. I don't see people lining up to hand Australia the moral victory for, say, Cardiff 2009, Old Trafford 2013 or Sydney 2021, or complain about the effect on the series (respectively - completely changed the course; denied Australia the chance to stage a comeback so guaranteed England would retain the Ashes; allowed England to avoid another whitewash). Rain's a part of test cricket. Get over it.

Meanwhile, in yet further evidence that the series narrative is utterly bonkers, the Australian side seems to be having to fight off calls/speculation about Cummins resigning from the captaincy. How mad can you get? Cummins' record as captain is W11, L4, just six weeks ago he was lifting the world test championship, and in case no-one had noticed, his team is 2-1 up in the series. Yes, he had a shocker at OT, but his team still walked away with a draw. His tactics have been questionable at times, but if we sacked every England captain for a shocker of a match or dodgy tactics, I'd be captain by now because there would be nobody left to do the job. Meanwhile, Stokes is under precisely zero captaincy pressure despite his own dodgy tactics at times and clear lack of team preparation - in fact people are talking about how he's going to lead England in Australia two and a half years hence. Despite losing this series (so far).

Blaming everything and everyone but yourself is not the way elite sportspeople win games. Quite the opposite. You take responsibility for optimising absolutely everything within your control. That's how the likes of the Australians of the 2000s, Novak Djokovic or the England Olympic cycling team become so dominant. It may not win you too many friends, but push every 1% advantage, and funnily enough, the luck stops mattering so much.

[sussexpob]

Blaming everything and everyone but yourself is not the way elite sportspeople win games. Quite the opposite. You take responsibility for optimising absolutely everything within your control. That's how the likes of .....Novak Djokovic or the England Olympic cycling team become so dominant. It may not win you too many friends, but push every 1% advantage, and funnily enough, the luck stops mattering so much.

You are free to believe what you want, but in a sport where the main marquee event has no winner for 7 years in the 2000s because so many people were doping they'd of had to give the trophy to 151st place to find a clean athlete, and only then because they couldnt be bothered to pursuit minor nobodies for drugs charges, I think it takes quite a leap of faith to believe that odd shaped pillows giving athletes 0.5% better REM sleep were responsible for the rapid rise of British Cycling under Brailsford.... and not the brown paper bags being sent on the sly from the team doctors.

And Novak? He currently credits his own competitive edge on wearing a type of "nanotechnology" that converts his emitted body heat into light beam energy that beams directly back into his muscles and nervous system, but this quite literally bat sh*t insane, and like all of his previous words on how he is so fit or how he improved so rapidly and so much, have been instantly debunked by science. Like his opinion not eating in daylight gave you more energy..... or that his nobody family doctor cured his asthma with a gluten free diet, even though thats not actually possible, or that he was not Celiac (when that was pointed out to him, he started to claim he was celiac and completely changed his story)..... all during a period where drug testing was, ahem, non-existent in tennis..... something Djokovic has very much made plain that he wanted to continue. But yeah... defo the conversion of heat energy to magic light beams being responsible.

Tom Brady is another who spouts all the small gains/alternative preparation theory about why he was so good and seemed to play so long. Credits his personal trainer.... a man who is disbarred from medicine practice in the USA for fraud, and who has personally overseen a lot of athletes who tested positive for PEDs.

[sussexpob]

Edit- removed my response as nothing to do with the thread

[sussexpob]

I agree with the above assessments. Its been a shame that the series has descended into a lot of sour grapes, and each countries media taking lame pot shots at each other. The cricket has been great, so its dragged down what has been an excellent series. I'd rather read about the stuff on the pitch, than tit for tat nonsense dragging up past instances of Mankad's or apparently dodgy stumpings/run outs/catch claims. The "same old Aussies, always cheating" chants... yawn.

Win, lose or draw.... show respect to your opponents. If something truly bad had happened, then it might justify all the nonsense. After Stokes and McCullum made England likeable again, they have taken a step back with the feeling of moral superiority and entitlement being displayed in this series. I'm not buying this... stop moaning and get on with it.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England unchanged for the Oval.

[sussexpob]

I think the most baffling of feedback from the England team has been Bairstow giving a rather combative interview where he called out people slagging off his crap keeping, by reminding them of his injury horrors and all the work he has put into getting back into the team. His defence seemed to be that people forget he had a bad injury and came into the series unfit and out of form.... so we should remember that when he drops chances.

Sorry Jonny, but if you are playing Ashes cricket, you get judged on the output.... if you are fit enough to make yourself available, then you are judged on 100% fitness. If you cant perform to 100%, you shouldnt be in the side.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I don't think logical analysis is Jonny's strong point.

[sussexpob]

I don't think logical analysis is Jonny's strong point.

You see a lot of this in the NFL. Players who want to be good team mates engaging in self-sacrifice by being prepared to answer the call when not fully fit, and then being baffled when their attempts at projecting themselves as selfless team players ends up in heaps of criticism when they cant perform. I guess Jonny might be in the same boat - a painful injury, he's rushed himself back to be available for the team, taking on a role that places a lot on his body and mind after a long layoff (and a long layoff from keeping)....

I can understand why he might be frustrated. I guess in his mind he has done all he can to answer his captain and coaches call, and might think that is deserving of some credit..... but as the old adage in the NFL goes, if you are fit enough to be on the field, you are fit enough to be criticised. This is elite sports, if you are in the game, you have to perform. If you not in the position to, you shouldnt be there.

[GarlicJam]

England unchanged for the Oval.

Big call on their two ageing bowlers.

No surprise otherwise.

[sussexpob]

Anderson has come out to say no plans to retire. Could do with a few wickets in this test, because if not, he might not get the option to decide.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Good news for Lancs, maybe.

[Durhamfootman]

I can only see St James following the Darren Stevens path while he's pulling on an England shirt, tbh