Champions Trophy, Feb 19 - March 9

[andy]

NZ only have dropped one catch all tournament! They really are an incredible fielding unit!

[andy]

Bracewells been poor too many wides and loose balls, I'd go back to O'Rourke especially to Iyer, bowl back a length and try and push it through

[andy]

Ravindra gets axar!

[Arthur Crabtree]

Been so many Bracewell's for NZ, I'm getting them confused. This one is a spinner. I was thinking of him as Doug Bracewell, who is still playing and a year older.

Now trying to remember the Kiwi who was always getting dropped for boozing...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Jesse Ryder. Adam Parore, Test captain, said he was 'too fat' to play for NZ. Averaged 41 in Tests though.

[andy]

Pitch is taking a lot of turn 250+ is a good score on this pitch

[sussexpob]

I understand and appreciate all that but you also have to take into account the standard of the comp....with all the best players playing in the hundred the bowling attacks are weak and budinger Libby etc are pummelling attacks that you won't see in associate cricket most of the time let alone international cricket so even that isn't a reliable guide to a persons ability.....it all boils down to the fact we need a better 50 over comp

I am sorry, but you are basing this idea of it being a minor counties competition on what? The fact that England pick players that don't stand out in the competition, and then they fail? Lets just take the post-2019 WC win era, and look at players who came out the 50 over cup into the team with records that justified their selections with no question.

Duckett.... arguably England's best bat at the moment.
Malan.... England's top ODI average ever recorded at a great SR.
Sam Hain.... Averages 106 in his 2 games at over a run a ball.
Ben Foakes.... was man of the match in his only ODI

Net result - not a single failed selection. Interesting isn't it? It almost like there is a correlation between being good in this crapfest competition and doing well in ODIs, and not being good and not doing well.



Livingstone basically has brought a similar level of performance to the ODI team (expensive part-time bowler plus low 30s whirlwind hitting). Lewis Gregory deserved a cap, averaged 58 with bat/24 with ball and wasn't picked again.

[andy]

The bowling attacks are sub-standard...they would get pummelled at international level..it is a second string competition which everyone on this site except you would say....I'm not saying there aren't talented players in that comp but it's hard to use that comp as the yardstick to pick players from because the standard of that comp is poor.....

[andy]

O'Rourke gets iyer! Huge wicket!

[andy]

Santner gets Rahul! NZ now thinking get them out for 230-240! Really good game this

[sussexpob]

The bowling attacks are sub-standard...they would get pummelled at international level..it is a second string competition which everyone on this site except you would say....I'm not saying there aren't talented players in that comp but it's hard to use that comp as the yardstick to pick players from because the standard of that comp is poor.....

Against these substandard bowling attacks....

Duckett averaged 25 in his last season played.
Malan averaged 20 over 8 games in his last two seasons.
Bethell averaged 25 and 15 in his two seasons in over 13 games.
Phil Salt averaged 5 in his last season played (only 2 games).
Harry Brook's last two seasons he scored a mammoth 343 runs in 14 games at an average of 24
Tom Banton's last two seasons combine for 524 in 18 games at an average of 29.8
Jordon Cox couldn't bag a run for his life.
Zak Crawley had a middling record. One very good year, another he averaged 18 in.

Looks exactly like international class batsman "pummelling" second rate amateurs.

Oh no wait

[andy]

Your missing an obvious point?! The players you mentioned there wouldn't have played in the one day cup for a few years because of the hundred.....when is the last time they played in the 50 over cup?! The hundred has taken place at same time in last 3 years...?! The 50 over cup is a developmental tournament now....I'm not sure where your getting confused with that point? You seem to be the only one who is...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Last two proper batters in, so next wicket is a big one.

[andy]

NZ are 10 minutes ahead of the over rate that is outstanding! It can be done haha! Santner into his last over

[sussexpob]

Your missing an obvious point?! The players you mentioned there wouldn't have played in the one day cup for a few years because of the hundred.....when is the last time they played in the 50 over cup?! The hundred has taken place at same time in last 3 years...?! The 50 over cup is a developmental tournament now....I'm not sure where your getting confused with that point? You seem to be the only one who is...

Its hardly a difficult or controversial point being made.

If I put you in a football match against a pub team comprising of 11 x 40 a day smokers who are overweight, and you look like the Ronaldo for 90 minutes, then of course its hardly indicative of you being on the cusp of joining a PL side for 300 million quid. If, however, I put you against the same team and you can't kick a ball, then I think I can conclude that you are not as good as the average 40 year old with a beer gut, and are almost certainly rubbish.

IRRESPECTIVE OF THE GENERAL QUALITY OF THE ONE DAY CUP - Bethell was the 11th best averaging person in his own team in 2023 when he last played. He averaged 60 runs less than Bernard at 18SR less. You seem to be saying that we have to ignore that because the standard is so terrible - well is the standard is so terrible, why can't Bethell score any runs?

Its a crazy argument. Against the same bowlers, in the same games, in the same conditions....everyone in his squad has done better. Its frankly mad to conclude he's not the worst player in his team, and verging on psychopathic to pick him in the national team.

Sam Hain outperforms him. Comes in scores. Bethell comes in and hasn't done well enough.... but this on every single metric we have available for judgment is entirely unsurprising. Literally everything we have at our disposal tells us Hain is better.