India tour of Eng, June 20 - Aug 4

[sussexpob]

The idiotic hype England pundits give him is beyond silly.

Probably worth noting in only 13 drawn games England have played, Stokes has 10 x 50s and 5 x 100s, and a lofty average heading to 70.... Not only is his average of 35 not world class, but drawn games on roads are doing a lot of heavy lifting for it.

Never been outplayed in his career.... shot me now

[Arthur Crabtree]

It's standard to place more emphasis on most recent events. And Stokes has had a good series. Plus there's been an upturn in results since he became captain.

But it's true that there was little of this kind of analysis when he was going badly. Like long stretches without a Test ton or being unfit to bowl.

[Arthur Crabtree]

BBC updates now making suggestions that might be it for the day. If so, great to snare Gill in that brief passage of play.

[Gingerfinch]

I watched that podcast. David Lloyd was talking nonsense regarding the end of the last test.

Anyhow, Stokes does get a lot of love but I reckon he's earned it, what with 2019 and leading the new look England!

[Durhamfootman]

England playing for the draw, do we reckon?

that was my first thought when I saw the team. Bowler out, batter in. bowlers picked with decent batting records. I reckon Josh Tongue is the only guy in the team without a FC ton

edit: although I note with interest that Bethell doesn't either, but does boast a FC 96, whilst Tongue has to settle for a FC 55

[Durhamfootman]

as for Lloyd talking nonsense........ crikey...... that's as complete a given as a bear sh1tting in the woods, or a pope wearing a funny hat

[sussexpob]

Plus there's been an upturn in results since he became captain

It depends how you look at it. Stokes has never captained in Australia away, which is the clear stat killer for most England captains. He also has captained series vs Ireland and Zimbabwe at times these teams couldn't be statistically any worse. If you remove Ashes away matches from Roots record and ZIM and IRE from Stokes, their win/loss ratio is essentially the same unless you go to three decimal places after 1.5. So against teams they both captained against, they are in fact identical.

If you wanted to go more deep, you could ask in terms of priorities in test cricket what status do England have at the moment? I would personally say in order of the following priorities, England circket's health check is usually based on roughly the following.

1. Ashes performance
2. The performance against the next best side of the day - So up until the 1950s South Africa, after that the West Indies till the 90s, probably SA after that till the early 2000s, then India become the biggest team on the planet.
3. Performance in Asia away to India and Pakistan particularly. SL became relevant in Murali's career span, but only really then.
4. Expected to win all other series.

====== Under Stokes =======

1. Ashes - Do not currently hold the Ashes, and has not won a series vs them under Stokes.
2. India - Lost away 4-1, currently undecided home series with a possible draw on the cards.
3. Stokes holds no current series win against an Asian side against the two best sides.

In the history of the game, there is only one period where England did not have at least one live winning record in the case of the first two examples, using the eras defined above - in 1991 with 4 series lost to Windies and Australia. They did at the time have wins home and away against India (and also Sri Lanka).

If England lose this test, it will be the first time in history they have no last series cycle victories in last played Ashes matches, the last played 2nd most important series, and no active win's away against either of the big ticket Asian sides. 80% of those series results would have occurred under Ben Stokes.

[sussexpob]

People talk about this era like its going somewhere special, but the reality is this test match is hugely important in defining the Bazball era. Fail to win it, and its 4 out of 4 failures in the most important series to judge the teams quality on.

Lose in Australia, and its Schofield Report/everyone gets fired/rip it and burn it territory. Fletcher's England had won an Ashes series against Australia's greatest side only a a year and a few months before panic set in there. Flower held series wins against India away, Australia away, Australia and India at home... and was put to bed after an Ashes way loss.

Why should Stokes and McCullum stay on if they lose? The historical achievements arent even comparable

[sussexpob]

Meanwhile, I have literally no idea what a par score is on this deck after that wicket. That's done everything, poor Nair had no chance.

[sussexpob]

Chris Woakes not happy with Ollie Pope's misfield then...if looks could kill, Ollie Pope is a goner.

When England find their lines and lengths, the ball is doing stuff. Been a bit all over the place from Tongue aside from the wicket ball, too full looking for the swing, and then counters it by banging half trackers in. Just as I say it, Tongue fires another wild leg side wide ball... 4byes.

EDIT - and then again, responds with a half tracker, Jadeja is waiting for it and gives it what it deserves.

[sussexpob]

And then he finally hits his length... and the ball does the rest. Jadeja has no chance.

Assuming you can find your line and length, I reckon 200-250 is a decent score on this deck. That swung in, bounced, seamed away...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Some of it has been quite vibey, including the positive play. Coming back from 2-0 in the Ashes, going 1-0 up in India and Pakistan. Winning 3-0 in Pakistan. But you're right, there have been some poor series. It helps coming after Root's dismal leadership. I suppose most of Stokes' reputation as skipper will be made in Austrailia, one way or the other. They haven't lost yet!

[Arthur Crabtree]

While reflecting on England's terrible results under Stokes, India have gone 5 down!

[sussexpob]

India will be annoyed. I think Bumrah would have been unplayable on this pitch. That last ball pitched on a stumpish line, and swung maybe a metre or two after bouncing.

And then the next from Woakes is an absolute banger.... you have to be bang on form to get an edge on that one.

Judging on Jurel's keeping at Lords, I reckon byes alone might score 100 for England. Poor Jamie Smith is having to work hard,

[sussexpob]

I don't think I have ever seen a spell like this. The only two balls remotely close the stumps were unplayable rockets that picked up wickets, and every other ball on his pitch map has gone about 5 meters past the stumps or a metre outside the batsman earlobe.

95% Village bowling mixed with the odd hand grenade